Hunner sleeve install with a twist

[alrock]

Did the Hunner Sleeve install today on my steering rack but added another element to the mix. I put a layer of 1/16 neoprene rubber, 60 durometer, inside the sleeve to make sure the sleeve was really snug plus to add a bit of NVH absorption. The rubber had adhesive on one side to help secure it to the sleeve. Here's the product I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005I58UGI/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00

Sleeve with the rubber ready to go

Taking out the bracket is an exercise in patience and use of varying length sockets to get to the top bolt

OEM rubber insert wasn't destroyed (it broke on removal) but what you can't really tell from the pic is that the top was offset from the bottom by nearly 3/4", meaning it had slid over and essentially re-formed in that position. It wasn't doing the job the way it was supposed to.

Here's the pic as it went in. It is very hard to move the sleeve around once it is in place as this rubber was pretty grippy, so if you try the install this way with the rubber be sure you get the sleeve in the position you want before putting on the bracket. I was told the recommended position is with the "comb" of the sleeve at the top of the bracket (facing the rear of the truck) but I couldn't get it in that position. I could feel the top and the comb was nicely meshed and the rubber liner was in place like I wanted.

I did cut off the brackets tab at the bottom as I couldn't figure out how to get the bracket back on with that tab. It was a very tight fit to get the bracket over the rubber lined Hunner sleeve. Plus, if I ever have to do this on the trail that's one headache removed.

 

[Bigunit]

Is there any play/movement of the rack when cranking the steering? Any way to post a video showing the post-Hunner sleeve movement (or lack thereof) of the rack. Did you need to grind down any part of the sleeve?
Nice work Alex! :cheers:

 

[alrock]

Don't know yet if there is play, or if this works long term. But the ride was tighter with less knocking in the front end.

Didn't do any trimming. The sleeve is a couple of mm away from the power steering line and is clear of the boot.

 

[M22KLARS]

Nice piece!! And I think that's a good idea to add the rubber!

 

[backcountryislife]

Good call... I'd been debating on essentially this same idea... but was still out on what material to use. I think adding a thin rubber piece will increase the effectiveness of the sleeve, just in making it stick to the rack better. I'd assume the rubber will wear & you'll have to tighten it back up a bit more after a few trails... but I like how you did it.

 

[alrock]

With this setup the bracket is very tight on each side (towards the ears of the bracket) but there's more room top and bottom (against the frame and at the top of the bracket curve). I think when we do Bigunit's truck I am going to suggest a couple of 1.5"-2" pieces get added on at these two points, outside of the sleeve, to help give it height against the bracket.

Yep, more rubber to compress but I think it will end up in a tighter fit. Another consideration is to use a higher durometer rubber so there would be less compression. The highest I saw in a similar product was 70

 

[backcountryislife]

60 is what we use for beefed up motor mounts on the high power 2 strokes... I'd think that would work pretty well. I feel like this will keep the rack from sliding when it loosens up a little bit, interested to see how this does long term, but I'm pretty sure I'm just going to copy your lead!

 

[Hunner]

Good material to use. I tried that red rubber gasket stuff and mine was almost too tight to get everything on because at that point I had ground down the bracket back side. When I was using that I was concerned about it wearing but this seems to be something that should be checked often anyway, especially when you feel that bumping in the steering.
I don't think it matters whether the straight cut and teeth are down or not I just wanted to see it both ways.
I do think the halves should be front to back so they will compress together.
Squeezing the ends of the bracket as I have shown to make the bracket conform better to the round sleeve and rack rather than the shape it has to match the oem rubber that is round on the outside edge but goes straight back at top and bottom towards the flat end.
I have a good supply of the sleeves right now and will cut and blast some today.

There are already some videos in that extensive thread on these showing before and after but not with the neoprene.
Thanks Alrock for another solution.
Mine works as is but that thin neoprene looks like a solution for those with slack.
I wonder if a coating of old yellow 3M spray adhesive would help secure it?

 

[backcountryislife]

I'll get some video after Reaper & I do ours to see how much movement the rubber allows.
I think one slab of that rubber will be enough for about 6 racks at least!!

 

[alrock]

BTW, credit goes to Bigunit for coming up with this idea and Jerry S. for helping implement it.

 

[Bigunit]

No need for that Alex. You and Jerry S did all the work. This is a community-wide R & D experiment with Hunner's sleeve for everyone's benefit and an attempt to deal with the metal-to-metal transferance issues that Dwaine mentioned when we picked his brain on this topic.

How do you think this cloth-inserted adhesive-backed rubber with a 65-70 durameter rating would do vs. the 60 durometer neoprene? http://www.allstategasket.com/info_gasket_material_style-1175.asp

 

[Hunner]

It's a group effort then.
This is when I tried that fiber reinforced rubber but I was still trying to keep the OEM rubber. Never use a used rubber! lol

I will revive a short version of the sleeve development here.
My original was 3 inches long, (yeah I know) but it had the advantage of also being held between the end nut and hydraulic port.
That was because with my tie rods and the old stretchy rubber tie rod boots I could get everything in place.

I also had installed the center bracket to hold things in place.

I found out the new boots are really stiff and would not go over the rack and sleeve.
So for everybody else I cut the sleeves 2 inches to give room for newer boots to fit just on the rack.
I had my set up working so did not pursue the rubber gasket any further.
You guys did a good job in selection of material.

 

[alrock]

Bigunit, I went back and forth on the cloth reinforced and I chose to go regular rubber in part because some compression is a good thing; flexibility of the regular rubber is helpful and I thought the nylon reinforcement could actually end up being an abrasive down the road. Guess I just wasn't convinced that it had necessary benefits but I still think it was pretty much a coin flip decision. I do have plenty of rubber remaining to do your sleeve and many others.

Also, I think 1/16" is perfect. Can be doubled up if necessary but in this application it added a total of 1/8" diameter which was about perfect.

 

[Hunner]

I just tried some of that orange rubber I had. I thought it was fiber reinforced but the last package I got does not seem to have it. I thought it was 1/16 but it might be 3 3/32. I will have to look at the store at a new package.
Anyway I tried to mock it up on my spare rack and could not get a piece on each half to allow the sleeve to come together. So it must be thicker than what you used.
It was just a thought since this stuff is cheap and locally available in most areas, but it's too thick.

So out of the neoprene 12 x 24 piece, 6 strips 2 inches wide and what, 7 long x 3 each strip, maybe to cover both halves?
That would make 18, halves or enough for 9 racks?
Did I do that math right?
I'm trying to decide if this is the accepted method I could cut the sleeves a bit different. I cut them in half on a chop saw then I grind the two straight edges down so that there is a slight gap when installed. That way I know it got full compression because they don't quite come together.
I could just cut them and not grind them so the teeth would engage a bit more just to improve the fit.
Do you think you have about the same gap on the tooth side as shown in your picture of the straight cut side?

 

[Steve #1]

I used a section of bicycle innertube on mine and last time I took a look at it it was holding up fine. I used aome random adhesive I found in my buddy's garage that said it would work on both metal and rubber.

 

[alrock]

Hunner, I think the gap on mine is a bit less but close to that. I think the teeth are a bit more engaged. For example, in my pic in the first post shows about a 2mm+ gap. I'm comfortable about how mine is sitting right now.

Took the regular route to work today - you know the one, where you've memorized every bump, rattle and jiggle in the truck - and it felt much tighter today.

 

[Hunner]

I'm glad it's working for you with your added neoprene.
It's still a mystery why some have more slack in there than others.
The density of that stuff you used sounds like it will keep it from wearing as fast and less likely to squirm around.
Your a good test,,, uh good subject to test this as much as you have put your H3 thru. lol
Keep us posted in a few thousand miles.

 

[alrock]

The OEM clamp appears to be a bit taller than wide. While mine is very snug side to side within the clamp I think it is not quite as tight from frame to top of clamp. It's good but if it needs tightening I will need to add spacers. I failed to get a pic with just the sleeve and bracket that showed this, at least the way it looks on my truck.

As a test subject, I'm not afraid to put in solutions that might not be perfect as we can learn a lot about what worked and what didn't work. I'll adjust this as necessary.

 

[Hunner]

I want to stay on this for the best possible solution for problems different people have as I feel since I started all this I should.
Since we now have another thread I wanted to point out a few things that have been tried.
I found the post where I tried a little different method. Post #235 with the rubber on the outside but still favored none at all at that time on my H3.
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?295-HUNNER-EXtreme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves/page16
Jr3t chose to shim it from the rear to get it to conform but you can also squeeze the top and bottom of the clamp down some also.
I went the other way by grinding the bracket.
I was just concerned with the space moving the entire rack out but if his is still holding it must not matter too much
post 237
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?295-HUNNER-EXtreme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves/page16
This may show how squeezing the bracket until it conforms can help.
Post #234
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?295-HUNNER-EXtreme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves/page17

 

[Scarsman]

I have a question. Does the rack have to be able to move? What would happen if it were mounted solid? After working on H3slate's rack last weekend I was amazed at how much that thing moves, due to the two bolts/bushings at the driver's side end.

 

[alrock]

It doesn't have to move to function properly. If there's a bit of play that may help reduce breakage if the rubber absorbs shocks. I believe the primary reason it is "softly" mounted is to reduce noise, vibration and harshness inside the truck. For example, the diff doesn't need those soft mounts either but it makes for a much smoother and quieter ride.

 

[Hunner]

It don't think it is supposed to move other than maybe very very little for the reasons Alrock said.
Rack movement reduces the reaction to your steering allowing the whole rack to move rather than just the internal rod that moves the tie rods.
I think excessive movement when the rubber OEM bushing goes is what transmits forces down to the drivers side secured mounting and cracks the rack.
I still believe raising the vehicle by turning up the torsions angles the tie rods up more and pushes up on the end of the rack more than when they are lower, The action is supposed to be more in and out laterally with the rack. That adds to the problem when it is forced up.

 

[alrock]

Hunner, I forgot about the lines so I would agree that really no lateral movement should occur and that the rubber is just there for comfort.

 

[Scarsman]

It doesn't have to move to function properly. If there's a bit of play that may help reduce breakage if the rubber absorbs shocks. I believe the primary reason it is "softly" mounted is to reduce noise, vibration and harshness inside the truck. For example, the diff doesn't need those soft mounts either but it makes for a much smoother and quieter ride.

It don't think it is supposed to move other than maybe very very little for the reasons Alrock said.
Rack movement reduces the reaction to your steering allowing the whole rack to move rather than just the internal rod that moves the tie rods.
I think excessive movement when the rubber OEM bushing goes is what transmits forces down to the drivers side secured mounting and cracks the rack.
I still believe raising the vehicle by turning up the torsions angles the tie rods up more and pushes up on the end of the rack more than when they are lower, The action is supposed to be more in and out laterally with the rack. That adds to the problem when it is forced up.

Ok, that makes sense. I can see where lateral movement would seem to lend to a mushy unresponsive-feeling steering.

 

[TXH3T]

Hey Alrock I just got my set today. Feeling like another slow patient install