Pickle's Solid Axle Swap

[pickledill]

Well, after a lot of decision making I have decided to do a solid axle swap. I've decided to go for a driver side diff looking at used dana44s they seem to range in the 3-5k range.
I've never built a solid axle myself but it seems you can buy a housing off ebay/amazon ( I can't say I know how quality these housings are) for under $1000 and it seems all the internals can be had for about $1500 correct me if I'm wrong.

Are there D44 axles available out there that are the same WMS as factory? or wider that can be cut down?

Anything I should know or be concerned about that I can't think of at the time of this writing?

 

[alrock]

There are definitely some SAS veterans on here! If you haven't read through their pages in Builds I highly recommend doing so, and I know you've had some chats with them in other posts. cgalpha, rascole, 06 H3, and atvspeed4 are all good resources.

And why a driver's side diff, are you changing out the transfer case as well, or have you already? If I recall correctly, the front output on the transfer case is on the passenger side.

 

[pickledill]

There are definitely some SAS veterans on here! If you haven't read through their pages in Builds I highly recommend doing so, and I know you've had some chats with them in other posts. cgalpha, rascole, 06 H3, and atvspeed4 are all good resources.

And why a driver's side diff, are you changing out the transfer case as well, or have you already? If I recall correctly, the front output on the transfer case is on the passenger side.

So far I believe I've read every documented sas swap.

As for a driver side diff I plan on using a awd t-case mated to a 6l80e, as the stock h3 tcase won't fit on a 6l80e.

 

[cgalpha08]

Heck yea, SAS!

What's your main goal, just driving it around and mild offroading or getting into hardcore stuff? I only ask because, if it's more hardcore, just skip to one tons/dana 60 stuff right off the bat.

I know you mentioned driver drop, however if you stay pass drop the gm dana 44 or corp 10b front axles are a perfect match for the stock rear end.
You could potentially get a ford high pinion dana 44, that might be a similar width and drivers drop.

For pass drop. Thorparts basically makes a kit for the sas. Axle, frame plates, steering box. The rear then gets a spring over.

If youre going driver drop, imo, I would go one tons. 05+ ford dana 60 front and a 14b rear and call it a day. Tons of parts available for both of those axles, tons of support etc.

Youll have to figure something out for the abs. Machine the hubs down and have tone rings pressed on w/custom brackets.

For brakes. Either adapt the stock h3 brakes, or run the a less designed for the sas axles, however you run the risk of the master not having enough fluid movement to have good pedal feel.


Id almost keep the 4 speed, toss on a driver drop the case like an atlast or something else that's mechanical, and put super outer axles under it and call it a day.

May i ask why the 6 speed with new t case? I know the 6 speed swaps haven't all been butterflies and candy, lots of odd kinks, especially with either mating to the stock t case or getting the electronics up to snuff.

Feel free to ask any questions. My first sas was a gm dana 44 with the stock rear and my current one is a gm dana 60 and 14b rear.

 

[cgalpha08]

Side note. For pricing.
You csn start with a few hunded dollar junkard housing, but gears/locker only...1500 easy. Chromoly axle shafts...800 or more, add a few hundred more to rebuild all of the wheel end stuff.

Typical sas costs are around 10k for dana 44/stock rear, 15-20k for swapping both axles. More if you add labor.

It adds up super fast haha

 

[pickledill]

Heck yea, SAS!

What's your main goal, just driving it around and mild offroading or getting into hardcore stuff? I only ask because, if it's more hardcore, just skip to one tons/dana 60 stuff right off the bat.

I know you mentioned driver drop, however if you stay pass drop the gm dana 44 or corp 10b front axles are a perfect match for the stock rear end.
You could potentially get a ford high pinion dana 44, that might be a similar width and drivers drop.

For pass drop. Thorparts basically makes a kit for the sas. Axle, frame plates, steering box. The rear then gets a spring over.

If youre going driver drop, imo, I would go one tons. 05+ ford dana 60 front and a 14b rear and call it a day. Tons of parts available for both of those axles, tons of support etc.

Youll have to figure something out for the abs. Machine the hubs down and have tone rings pressed on w/custom brackets.

For brakes. Either adapt the stock h3 brakes, or run the a less designed for the sas axles, however you run the risk of the master not having enough fluid movement to have good pedal feel.


Id almost keep the 4 speed, toss on a driver drop the case like an atlast or something else that's mechanical, and put super outer axles under it and call it a day.

May i ask why the 6 speed with new t case? I know the 6 speed swaps haven't all been butterflies and candy, lots of odd kinks, especially with either mating to the stock t case or getting the electronics up to snuff.

Feel free to ask any questions. My first sas was a gm dana 44 with the stock rear and my current one is a gm dana 60 and 14b rear.

it sounds very counterintuitive but I have no intentions of off-roading I just want to "reliably" push 500-600hp, which a D44 should be able to handle(hopefully).

I have seen some Ford axles for sale on ebay but if I recall they had wedges apart of the casting which will might get in the way? do you know the WMS needed to achieve a track width close to stock? if not I might have to live with the wheels sticking out past the fenders until I make wider ones

I thought Thorparts made ABS parts for the D44, or is that for the GM axle only?

as for the 6 speed what issues have there been? as for the t-case, moving to a different t-case solves that problem.

As for the pricing, I know jeep d44 bare housings can be had for $850 with shipping, and I believe I found another website that basically sells all the parts needed for around $1600 or so. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never built a solid axle before

 

[cgalpha08]

it sounds very counterintuitive but I have no intentions of off-roading I just want to "reliably" push 500-600hp, which a D44 should be able to handle(hopefully).

I have seen some Ford axles for sale on ebay but if I recall they had wedges apart of the casting which will might get in the way? do you know the WMS needed to achieve a track width close to stock? if not I might have to live with the wheels sticking out past the fenders until I make wider ones

I thought Thorparts made ABS parts for the D44, or is that for the GM axle only?

as for the 6 speed what issues have there been? as for the t-case, moving to a different t-case solves that problem.

As for the pricing, I know jeep d44 bare housings can be had for $850 with shipping, and I believe I found another website that basically sells all the parts needed for around $1600 or so. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never built a solid axle before

I'm sure others will agree, but 5-600 hp with the already large tires the h3 has....i would seriously consider dana 60/one tons axles, i think you'll be happier long term.

Gm dana 44 wms is 67.5". Stock rear is similar slightly narrower i think.

Thorparts machines down the hub and presses on the 55tooth tone ring. Either onto your own supplied hub or one of his. He also has a bracket to use the abs sensor and h3 brakes, but again that's for gm dana 44 stuff, which might be the same for ford but i am not sure. He normally deals with gm stuff, but should be easy to do tone rings onto a ford dana 44. Also the same process for one tons. He did my hubs for my dana 60 and 14b. I made my own abs sensor mounts however.

For the 6 speed issues....computer issues with tap shift/gear selection. Speedo readings in 4 lo. Output shaft of 6 speed when using the stock t case has to be resplined and that gets weak and breaks (shouldn't be an issue for you). Tsar trail had a ton of issues with true blue, and getting their wiring to work. I'll let @06 H3 chime in about his findings.

As far as cost to build a solid axle, as in just the axle itself...totally depends on what's alresdy there and what you have to change. If you go open diff with no locker....that cuts down on cost considerably, same with usikg stock shafts vs chromoly. I only know how much I spent building mine, but I was going to hardcore offroad, so it was several times your quoted cost. Once the axle is built....you gotta attach a whole new suspension to the frame, so a lot of fab work, welding and grinding.

 

[pickledill]

I'm sure others will agree, but 5-600 hp with the already large tires the h3 has....i would seriously consider dana 60/one tons axles, i think you'll be happier long term.

Gm dana 44 wms is 67.5". Stock rear is similar slightly narrower i think.

Thorparts machines down the hub and presses on the 55tooth tone ring. Either onto your own supplied hub or one of his. He also has a bracket to use the abs sensor and h3 brakes, but again that's for gm dana 44 stuff, which might be the same for ford but i am not sure. He normally deals with gm stuff, but should be easy to do tone rings onto a ford dana 44. Also the same process for one tons. He did my hubs for my dana 60 and 14b. I made my own abs sensor mounts however.

For the 6 speed issues....computer issues with tap shift/gear selection. Speedo readings in 4 lo. Output shaft of 6 speed when using the stock t case has to be resplined and that gets weak and breaks (shouldn't be an issue for you). Tsar trail had a ton of issues with true blue, and getting their wiring to work. I'll let @06 H3 chime in about his findings.

As far as cost to build a solid axle, as in just the axle itself...totally depends on what's alresdy there and what you have to change. If you go open diff with no locker....that cuts down on cost considerably, same with usikg stock shafts vs chromoly. I only know how much I spent building mine, but I was going to hardcore offroad, so it was several times your quoted cost. Once the axle is built....you gotta attach a whole new suspension to the frame, so a lot of fab work, welding and grinding.

well jeep does run 475hp through the dana 44s with 35" tires on the 392, and if they are confident enough I think I might be fine for now.

As for the axles, for some reason I've been stuck on looking at the JK axles since they should be easier to get parts for due to the many years they made the JK series.
However, I have come to the realization that the JL series has nearly identical wheel backspacing and track width to the H3, and depending on the frame of the h3, the stock axle mountings might be able to be used

I have seen the Tsar trail video with the resplined shaft, looks like they took the factory shaft and just re-splined it instead of making a new beefier splined shaft. That video however is one of the big reasons why I moved away from the TBM kit, I save about $2000 not going that direction

I'm sure I'm certainly making this seem far simpler than it actually is

 

[cgalpha08]

well jeep does run 475hp through the dana 44s with 35" tires on the 392, and if they are confident enough I think I might be fine for now.

As for the axles, for some reason I've been stuck on looking at the JK axles since they should be easier to get parts for due to the many years they made the JK series.
However, I have come to the realization that the JL series has nearly identical wheel backspacing and track width to the H3, and depending on the frame of the h3, the stock axle mountings might be able to be used

I have seen the Tsar trail video with the resplined shaft, looks like they took the factory shaft and just re-splined it instead of making a new beefier splined shaft. That video however is one of the big reasons why I moved away from the TBM kit, I save about $2000 not going that direction

I'm sure I'm certainly making this seem far simpler than it actually is

One thing to consider with the JK or JL axles is their use of unit bearings in the front, with respect to abs. The H3 computer is 55 tooth, Jk tone rings are 52 tooth, and the tone ring is internal to the wheel bearing assembly. This would make converting to 55 tooth difficult. Now, what i don't know is, if you change all of the tone rings to 52 tooth, if the computer can be re-programmed to work with that, to the best of my knowledge nobody has tried that yet. The old school axles with the old style hubs make this easier since you can slap it on a lathe, turn it down and add a tone ring. You could also just run without abs and have the dash light on lol but that's up to you.

Jk axles are 65.5" wms
Jl rubicon axles are 68.5" wms
I think either of those will work, jk front would match the stock rear nicely, jl, would be wider, but a set of spacers on the rear would fix that.

 

[CaseyS]

I'm running a stock transfer case with a 6L80. But it takes some fabrication and also disassembling the entire transmission to get to the output shaft to cut it down to a 27 spline.

 

[pickledill]

One thing to consider with the JK or JL axles is their use of unit bearings in the front, with respect to abs. The H3 computer is 55 tooth, Jk tone rings are 52 tooth, and the tone ring is internal to the wheel bearing assembly. This would make converting to 55 tooth difficult. Now, what i don't know is, if you change all of the tone rings to 52 tooth, if the computer can be re-programmed to work with that, to the best of my knowledge nobody has tried that yet. The old school axles with the old style hubs make this easier since you can slap it on a lathe, turn it down and add a tone ring. You could also just run without abs and have the dash light on lol but that's up to you.

Jk axles are 65.5" wms
Jl rubicon axles are 68.5" wms
I think either of those will work, jk front would match the stock rear nicely, jl, would be wider, but a set of spacers on the rear would fix that.

I have done a research (believe it or not, no one has these kind of problems) but I did some thinking and if I change all the wheels to 52 teeth, all the computer would know is that wheels are spinning slightly slower than they should, now I don't know if the computer compared these values to say the transmission output speed.. If it does thats a issue, but changing your diff gear ratios would also cause the value to skew and be wrong, but people do gear ratio changes all the time.

 

[cgalpha08]

Only one way to find out if it works! The speed sensor is in the t-case on the H3 and i dont know what the relationship/communication between the abs sensor and speed sensor is when it comes to the computer and electronics, im sure its stuff you can mess with in hp tuners.

are you trying to have all of the factory electronics and buttons work as expected? or do you not care about that and just want the mechanical stuff to work. Once you start by passing the oem functionality, it gets way easier to swap in what you want and less of a headache.

That being said, I still think you should go with 05+ super duty axles.

 

[06 H3]

I wouldn't waste your time with JK Axles...or just go to a D60. The 392 didn't come in JK axles and the JK axles are weaker than the JL axles

 

[pickledill]

Only one way to find out if it works! The speed sensor is in the t-case on the H3 and i dont know what the relationship/communication between the abs sensor and speed sensor is when it comes to the computer and electronics, im sure its stuff you can mess with in hp tuners.

are you trying to have all of the factory electronics and buttons work as expected? or do you not care about that and just want the mechanical stuff to work. Once you start by passing the oem functionality, it gets way easier to swap in what you want and less of a headache.

That being said, I still think you should go with 05+ super duty axles.

I don't know if I really need the D60, Its quite a bit heavier than the 44 and I'm trying to stay as light (I know ironic). The D60 is also just massive and stupidly wide which I'm not really looking for

 

[pickledill]

I wouldn't waste your time with JK Axles...or just go to a D60. The 392 didn't come in JK axles and the JK axles are weaker than the JL axles

Idk much about the jeep stuff but I think the biggest deal with the JLs was the better designed ring and pinion(Which is apparently stronger despite being much smaller than the JKs) and the thicker tube wall

 

[06 H3]

Idk much about the jeep stuff but I think the biggest deal with the JLs was the better designed ring and pinion(Which is apparently stronger despite being much smaller than the JKs) and the thicker tube wall

Yes, I was around many JKs when they JK was new. Bent axle tubes, broken R&P's, broken shafts were common. The JL axle is a big improvement from what I have seen. There is a lot that goes into R&P design. Contact patch being one of them and pinon offset. The ford 9in does well due to pinion to ring gear contact patch so it is more than just size.

 

[pickledill]

Yes, I was around many JKs when they JK was new. Bent axle tubes, broken R&P's, broken shafts were common. The JL axle is a big improvement from what I have seen. There is a lot that goes into R&P design. Contact patch being one of them and pinon offset. The ford 9in does well due to pinion to ring gear contact patch so it is more than just size.

Interesting, I might just go with the JL axles then, I see that you can get a front and rear 392 axle for about $7000 w/shipping which isn't too bad but I'd rather not spend that much.
Mounting the rear axle however, would be interesting

As I said before, you can get bare housings for about $900, they look just like OEM. I do not know how they compare to OEM however

 

[cgalpha08]

Interesting, I might just go with the JL axles then, I see that you can get a front and rear 392 axle for about $7000 w/shipping which isn't too bad but I'd rather not spend that much.
Mounting the rear axle however, would be interesting

As I said before, you can get bare housings for about $900, they look just like OEM. I do not know how they compare to OEM however

Are you doing the sas yourself or a shop?

The rear is easy. Couple of leaf spring perches and shock mounts and done. Is way easier than the front.

Are you going coils, coilovers, or leafs up front?

 

[pickledill]

Are you doing the sas yourself or a shop?

The rear is easy. Couple of leaf spring perches and shock mounts and done. Is way easier than the front.

Are you going coils, coilovers, or leafs up front?

I'll be doing probably about 90% of it myself, might have someone do the welding not sure yet.

I was debating on leafs, another build out there has them, 57hemicuda or something like that, I really like how their setup rides and sits. I might go coils especially considering that I might just be able to use the OEM mounts off the jeep axle

I'm still saving up money but I have a ton of money coming in plus selling a truck I don't need (if anyone is interested in a 05 avalanche 2500 in the Omaha area)

I am currently working on a couple other projects for my H3 making custom headlights and roof lights

 

[pickledill]

theres a set of D60s in town for $1000, I honestly might just say screw it and go D60 and save like $4000
I'll probably have to get them shortened otherwise they'll probably stick out like a foot, Disc brake conversion for the rear. Idk if I'll be happy with how high the truck will sit and the massive weight but it is what it is

 

[cgalpha08]

theres a set of D60s in town for $1000, I honestly might just say screw it and go D60 and save like $4000
I'll probably have to get them shortened otherwise they'll probably stick out like a foot, Disc brake conversion for the rear. Idk if I'll be happy with how high the truck will sit and the massive weight but it is what it is

I'm telling ya, just go the d60 route.

For what it's worth, I'm on a dana 60 in the front and 14b in the rear and I stick out....2-3 inches on each side.

 

[pickledill]

I'm telling ya, just go the d60 route.

For what it's worth, I'm on a dana 60 in the front and 14b in the rear and I stick out....2-3 inches on each side.

The build by 4speed? i thought you had a GM D44?

Doing more shopping I did find a guy in Oklahoma selling a j8 D60 rear with a j8 D44 front end for $4000 which I might consider

 

[cgalpha08]

The build by 4speed? i thought you had a GM D44?

Doing more shopping I did find a guy in Oklahoma selling a j8 D60 rear with a j8 D44 front end for $4000 which I might consider

I've had both.

Thorparts did my first sas with the dana 44 front and stock rear.

I then upgraded to a dana 60 and 14b.

So I've had both setups.

 

[pickledill]

I've had both.

Thorparts did my first sas with the dana 44 front and stock rear.

I then upgraded to a dana 60 and 14b.

So I've had both setups.

Ah, that makes sense, I imagine you off-road however? I might seriously consider the $4000 deal for the J8 front and rear axle I mentioned earlier if they are willing to ship, both axles use the same bolt pattern, designed for the JK series and the D60 is narrowed quite a bit, and they are basically brand new

 

[pickledill]

Ah, that makes sense, I imagine you off-road however? I might seriously consider the $4000 deal for the J8 front and rear axle I mentioned earlier if they are willing to ship, both axles use the same bolt pattern, designed for the JK series and the D60 is narrowed quite a bit, and they are basically brand new

Welp, they didn't want to ship them and I don't feel like doing a 14-15 hour round trip. Unless someone here lives near Oklahoma city and is willing to check them out for me and such