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Precious Metals and alternate money

Paladine71

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I've thought about stocking up on some of the small bottles of different beverages, don't want the large bottles because you trade so much at one time. I like the idea of trading just enough, not more. A lot of the Russians that went through their collapse recommended Vodka, which isn't surprising. Gardening will be invaluable, but that's a different thread to come.
 

Paladine71

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Ever thought of these? The perfect combination of chocolate and alcohol.

VSC-1.jpg


They come in a wide assortment. Nice.

http://www.candywarehouse.com/products/grand-assortment-chocolate-liquor-bottles-81-ounce-gift-box/
 

abearden

Well-Known Member
Messages
609
Location
N. Idaho
Those would definitely have some niche value to get the wife off a guy's back!

Delving into the precious liquid gold: to supplement the precious metals I grab the cheap 300-800mL plastic bottles of alcohol. Not the good expensive stuff (well, I do, but that's for MY shelf), but the lower shelf stuff. Sure, a bottle of "Prestige" vodka won't trade as valuable as a bottle of Goose or Belvedeer, but if things are tight I'll get more out of 3 bottles of $4 vodka than 1 bottle of $20 vodka. I thought about the itty-bitty bottles, but those are $1-$2 for barely an ounce of liquor. For twice the price I get 25x the liquid. That reminds me, I need to grab a few more...
 

Trekker

That Guy
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217
Location
Olathe, KS
Great thread with good info! I know I need to get my butt in gear and get into precious metals but I have no idea what I'm doing or where to start. So far most of my preparations have been in the form of non-precious securities and illiquid commodities (ammo & freeze dried food) :wink:.
 

Paladine71

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For those of you that have safes, or are considering using safes, here is something to think about.

[video=youtube;nBhOjWHbD6M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M[/video]
 

abearden

Well-Known Member
Messages
609
Location
N. Idaho
For those of you that have safes, or are considering using safes, here is something to think about.

[video=youtube;nBhOjWHbD6M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M[/video]
Good video, but I have a couple of problems with it. First, it's a scare video and doesn't discuss ratings at all (TL-15, TL-30, etc). Second, they had plenty of room to work. How many of us keep safes upright in the middle of a room with 6+' of space all the way around? When a heavy safe is tucked back into a corner like a closet and bolted down it becomes MUCH more difficult to break it with basic tools. If you're protecting against high-end professional thieves, there won't be anything you can buy straight from a store that will help you (you're looking at a custom order straight from the factory).
 

3Hummers

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Main thing is to make it difficult enough that they find easier targets. Nothing can be made foolproof. Given enough time and information anything can be broken into.
 

Paladine71

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The key point of the video to me isn't that they got into it. It is how fast they got into it that bothers me. Yes, they had great conditions for it, but if you are away from your home for even a few hours, what can dedicated thieves with just a few common tools do? To me, this is why I advocate hiding things in plain sight and spreading out the hiding places. :huh:
 

Kurt

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Messages
926
Location
Austin, TX
Indeed.

I've seen demos at gun shows where they drop the cheap safes from a small distance and the safes just brake wide open :)

I guess that carries over into truck tool boxes a bit as well... I got a cheapo aluminum tool box that's on my hummer from a previous owner, enough to keep honest people out, but one time I slipped and dropped my truck keys in the box and locked it. I used a broom handle to pop one of the corners up enough to reach end and push the lock bar back and unlatched my box. At that point I put my expensive tools in smaller bags and carry them indoors and only have them in the truck when I'm on the trail.

Eventually I'll get a custom box fabricated up or a truck vault.

I saw a neat trick done to toughen up job site boxes, they cut off the bottom forklift/feet spaces on the bottom to make it flush, then reweld or weld on new hinges and box them in with steel plate and weld in steel plate in strategic areas to make it a real hassle to attempt a break in. It can be done with a cutting torch or a big grinder but it'll take time and a lot of noise to break in.

I like the idea of having a few spots to hide stuff, maybe have a easier to find consumer box store safe in the bedroom as a decoy with some low end valuables and keep the real valuables concealed somewhere non obvious, like in a fake hvac vent or something.


Back to metals, I'm starting to pick up various US and Canadian 1oz coins.

I'm wondering for those in southern California if there's a good on site location to purchase bullion or coins in person. I'm aware of CNI in Playa Del Rey, and there's a location near me in burbank which requires an appointment. I'm buying online but it's a bit of a hassle, they wait a few days for your card/wire to clear and a few days to ship, I'd rather go out and purchase directly even if it's by appointment and I have to pay a bit more over spot.

I think I need to get a few of the smaller sized coins as well for trading purposes, I like that splittable silver round, thats a great idea..
 
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Paladine71

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I think I need to get a few of the smaller sized coins as well for trading purposes, I like that splittable silver round, thats a great idea..

You can get the smaller fractionals too, if you want to avoid the splitting. I have stuff in 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz and even 5 grams and 1 gram sizes. Some of the online sites are useful for fractionals. Try Monarch Precious Metals, Northwest Territorial Mint, etc. Google can help.
 

Flash

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Messages
195
Location
Michigan
Alcohol. Booze. Even the cheap stuff. According to a recent refugee/emigre from Bosnia, booze is worth more than metals. Stockpile whiskey, scotch, bourbon, vodka. Also, basic first aid items were in short supply. Ammo was also traded as well as high quality firearms. Bosnia had plenty of cheap AK's.

Valuable info from one who's actually been there.
In my view, one needs 2 plans. One stationary (lockdown and defensible) and one mobile (lightweight, tactical, and evasive). Both have been defeated for centuries.

If the primary scenario is a temporary breakdown in local government (like a riot, earth quake, hurricane etc) then a requirement for large amounts of precious metals is limited and unlikely. If however, the preparation scenario is global breakdown in governments, then history can teach us what has been valuable for trade/barter in areas or times of limited government. Again - the commoner never required large amounts of precious metals. Precious metals were acquired by the local power broker and taken from those without the means to prevent it. Although I think it wise to have "some" means of valuables to barter in both a short or long term scenario, the weight hinderance and required security of large quantities of prescious metals, makes them FOR ME, an unlikely part of my planning.

Not interested in debating or upsetting anyone who has a differing view. Its fine by me if others want to acquire precious metals. I simply wanted to present an alternate rationale for anyone reading this, that perhaps was evaluating their own position on the matter.
 
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3Hummers

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Each person will build their capabilities according to the likelihood of a certain type of event in their area and their perceptions and means on the best way to deal with it. No room for bruised feelings, everyone has to plan as they see best.
 
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Kurt

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926
Location
Austin, TX
My main reason for metals is an inflation edge and for savings purposes. It's not as easy to spend as cash in the bank account so it keeps my emergency fund [sickness, layoff, or some other life changing event] intact :)

But yes I agree, I think being well supplied would be a big bonus. Clean water, food and ammo in disaster situations, and that article from Bosnia makes a good point, plenty of disinfectant and medical supplies.
 

Kurt

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926
Location
Austin, TX
Back to metals... coins or rounds or bars? Or a mix? I know the minted coins are nice from a collection standpoint but you are paying a lot over spot vs a round or small bar...
 

Sircode13

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Messages
547
Location
Laguna Hills
The reasoning for old coins, even though they are a little more over spot price of gold or silver. Is because during the depression the government was forcing citizens to sell gold and silver for what ever the government wanted to pay for it. If a citizen didn't turn in the gold or silver, they would be charged with a crime. I forgot what the crime was, but the only way you could legally keep your gold or silver was if it was old and had intrinsic value over the cost of the metal. A good thing to do would be to start up a barter system. They're are a few sites on the internet doing this. A big thing to have is plenty of food and water those two are more valuable than anything else during a collapse of civilization. Oh and also a nice M-4 with laser/flashlight, red dot site w/long distance magnifier, foregrip bi-pod combo and plenty of mags&ammo. Also a 22 long rifle conversation. Because 22 long rifle ammo is very plentiful, cheap for sighting and quieter. Maybe a crossbow conversation kit for it too when you want to be extra quite for the Zombies lol. Then last but not least a good machete.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

Paladine71

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The government can only seize your gold if they can find it. :)

They made gold illegal for the common man, seized what they could, and then sold it back onto the market at quite a markup. The folks that didn't turn in their gold made quite a profit, while the folks that did their patriotic duty and turned theirs in were robbed of that change in value. Typical government.

My theory is that gold is gold, and silver is silver. I want the most that I can accumulate since it is bought and sold in troy ounces. Rounds and bars are cheaper but are still easily identified. Minted coins and numismatic coins are not worth it to me. You pay too much over spot. If things hold together well financially, numismatic coins could be a nice investment. If things don't (look around, they are calling for Quantitative Easing 3, the forth stimulus), weight will matter more than rarity.

Coins are generally easier to carry, while bars are easier to stack. I have a mix of both. If it does come to a barter system, I like having more options because the other guy might have a preference. I want the best chance at getting what I need for my family.
 

3Hummers

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Lots of old silver coins ( Morgan dollars ) that aren't rare or in that good of shape sell for about the spot price of silver as that is all they are worth. Generally I would agree that gold coins cost too much over spot...except for the ones I paid $3-400.00 each for 9-10 years ago.
 

Paladine71

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China and India have announced that they will start buying Iranian oil with gold. That is huge news that will directly affect all of us. For decades, the U.S. Dollar has been the world's reserve currency, meaning that it is used by all nations for international trading. The two largest and fastest growing economies in the world, China and India, are saying that they don't believe our dollar is valuable enough for trade anymore because of our huge debt. They are going back to using gold, which indicates three things.

1) Other nations will begin to act on this lead and will shift away from using our dollar too. After all, you want to be with good money, not bad.

2) Our status as the world's reserve currency will not last. That demand is the only thing holding our dollar's value up. It will likely drop in value now.

3) Precious metal values will increase because the demand for it is increasing.
 

Paladine71

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This is a great video series that will help you understand how this whole financial system is built. Please feel free to verify as you will. The truth will blow your mind.

[video=youtube;mIIAvdJvCes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIIAvdJvCes&feature=plcp[/video]

[video=youtube;f11De4_pGnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f11De4_pGnw&feature=plcp[/video]

[video=youtube;F2rXCEEh8SE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2rXCEEh8SE&feature=plcp[/video]

[video=youtube;LvH8Jw_ouR0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvH8Jw_ouR0&feature=plcp[/video]
 

Kurt

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Messages
926
Location
Austin, TX
Ah... Money as debt.

It starts out ok and that guy gets some of the basics right, but the wheels come off the wagon halfway though, and it veers sharply into conspiracy theory territory when he starts babbling about infinite debt and got a few things wrong.

Then again it's an animated short by a Canadian graphic designer, not an economist.
 

Paladine71

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Tallmansville, WV
Ah... Money as debt.

It starts out ok and that guy gets some of the basics right, but the wheels come off the wagon halfway though, and it veers sharply into conspiracy theory territory when he starts babbling about infinite debt and got a few things wrong.

Then again it's an animated short by a Canadian graphic designer, not an economist.

By all means, correct the information here. Where is he wrong and what are the right answers?
 
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