Should I get an alignmet done?

[07Custom]

So I've been contemplating getting an alignment done, which I most likely will. Just needed a consensus.

-I swapped my steering box
-I rotated my "better" tires to the front and put new ones on back

I'm thinking these 2 things constitute an alignment but just wanted to see if you all thought so as well. I haven't been driving it too much lately, but these 100°+ days are killing me on the bike!

Also, does $210 seem like a rip off for a 4 wheel alignment? I've only paid $100 at most for other vehicles, but I'm wondering if this is because of the 37" tires? On the same note, that was a quote from 4wheelparts.

Thanks everyone!

 

[alrock]

I get my alignments done at Firestone and I paid about $140 for a lifetime alignment, meaning I can go in as necessary to get it aligned again. I've had four alignments over about two years.

Steering box - if you didn't change any other steering settings you shouldn't need an alignment. As for swapping the tires, maybe . . . but more if they are very different in wear as I recall yours are. But I bet the change would be nominal. If you think you need one see if you can invest in the Firestone deal and then you won't have to pay for future alignments.

 

[davidh3]

So I've been contemplating getting an alignment done, which I most likely will. Just needed a consensus.

-I swapped my steering box
-I rotated my "better" tires to the front and put new ones on back

I'm thinking these 2 things constitute an alignment but just wanted to see if you all thought so as well. I haven't been driving it too much lately, but these 100°+ days are killing me on the bike!

Also, does $210 seem like a rip off for a 4 wheel alignment? I've only paid $100 at most for other vehicles, but I'm wondering if this is because of the 37" tires? On the same note, that was a quote from 4wheelparts.

Thanks everyone!

Yes, definitely $210 is a RIP OFF for 4 wheel alignment.
Yes, the price should be $100+

 

[Zach]

210 seems way high. I went to firestone and paid 129 for a lifetime alignment and running 37's. Have had it aligned twice in a year and getting ready to take it in again. I don't think they can do a four wheel alignment on a truck.

 

[Gunner_45]

I may have confused myself here regarding a "4 wheel alignment".

In my mind I have always associated that term with 4X4 vehicles running front and rear independant suspensions

How much can you align on something with solid axles/leaf springs front and rear?

Toe-in/Toe-out on the front and what on the rear?

What am I missing?

:huh:

 

[deserth3]

210 sounds like a ripoff to me too.
Firestone lifetime allignemnt. They also do lifetime shocks and brakes too.

 

[07Custom]

Good that everyone thinks $210 was a rip off. I was really surprised when they told me that. For being an offroad specialty store they sure didn't know much either. The guy kept arguing with me that I didn't have a solid axle h3...even after explaining it was a SAS he was convinced I was confused about my truck :roll: I'm not too sure what to do for aligning my truck either. I'll go to firestone for sure since that seems to be the best place. Thanks for answering my "newbie" questions guys!

 

[MaxPF]

I may have confused myself here regarding a "4 wheel alignment".

In my mind I have always associated that term with 4X4 vehicles running front and rear independant suspensions

How much can you align on something with solid axles/leaf springs front and rear?

Toe-in/Toe-out on the front and what on the rear?

What am I missing?

:huh:

Solid axle rears need no alignment since the geometry is completely fixed. Solid axle fronts only need the toe set, which can be done by 2 guys with a tape measure.

IFS rigs in theory should only need a full alignment done if there is frame damage that has been repaired. I know I will get a lot of disagreement on this, but the fact is that unless a part, such as the frame or an A arm, is bent or distorted, the alignment should be the same as it was from the factory. Replacing the rack & pinion on an H3 will probably mean the toe needs to be reset, but caster and camber should never change unless damage is done. Yes, worn parts will cause the alignment to change, but replacing them should fix it, providing the shims or adjustment points aren't changed.

IMO, the only time an alignment should be considered is if there is a steering/handling issue, or the tires are wearing abnormally. Even then, make sure there are no worn parts and that tire pressures are correct before you consider the alignment. If all the front end parts are good but an alignment is needed, odds are something is damaged. Bent wheel? Bent A arm? Defective tire? Bent frame? Something has to cause the problem.

 

[Gunner_45]

OK......So I was not off in my thinking that $210 was a bit much for a 4 wheel alignment he doesnt need with his solid axle front end?

That is a solid axle he is sporting under the front of that rig is it not?

But......I did find this reference while trying to enlighten myself:

If the rear axle is cocked slightly to one side or the other,
it creates a "thrust angle" that causes the steering to pull slightly
to one side or the other. If the misalignment cannot be corrected
by repositioning the rear axle, a "thrust angle alignment"
(aligning the front wheels to the imaginary angle created by the rear axle)
can at least make a vehicle steer straight.

Something I had NEVER heard of before.

 

[MaxPF]

Damn, I completely missed the fact that it was a SAS. A solid front axle vehicle needs no alignment. Camber is built in to the knuckles, and cannot be changed at all. Caster is determined by the angle the inner C's are set to before being welded on, and then by the pinion angle if the installed axle. Typically, solid axles are designed to have correct caster when the imaginary centerline of the pinion is parallel to the ground. Assuming you didn't try to point your front pinion towards the t-case, and left it pointing straight back, then the caster should be good. Toe is simple to set by two guys with a tape measure. Measuring at the periphery of the rims, you should have 0 to 1/8" toe in, with 0 to 1/16" being best. Adjusting toe is all an alignment shop can do, and they will still charge you $80 to do it, IF they will do it. Being a SAS, they may give you a dumb look and not know what to do unless the guy running the rack is an old-timer or a 4wd enthusiast.

Again, a solid rear axle has NO adjustments as far as alignment goes, so a four wheel alignment would be impossible, and a waste of money.

 

[Xlr8n]

Simply check you toe-in with a tape as suggested already above. Here's a nice solid-axle how-to: http://www.4x4xplor.com/alignment.html

But, rather than using the tread seam or tread edge as a reference point, I place a short piece of tape down the center of each tread and put a pen mark on the tape as a reference. Having the pen mark level horizontally with the axle on the front of the tire, I measure the front, then coast it backward until the two pieces of tape roll over the top are even with the axle on the rear side and measure again. Set the toe accordingly.

I used this method on my TJ and had over 60k miles on my last set of Nitto Terra Grappler tires with super even treadwear.

 

[davidh3]

well. my experience: I usually go to a specific barbershop to get hair cut, the price is $15. since the barber saw my H3, he changed the price to $20. what a d0ucheb@g:giggle:

I figured out that commonly salesmen or sellers rip-off a customer by judging whether his/her car is nice or not.
This morning, I got a quote for installing 3 regular size windows from HOME DEPOT, when the salesman saw my H3 and my friend's Mercedez-Benz, he changed:"3 windows totally $5,200 including labor, tax and permit" :corn:

sometimes I should drive an old and cheap car for business purposes. xD

 

[06 H3]

its the "hummer tax"

 

[reaper]

FWIW, I paid $80 for my alignment from the dealer just a few weeks ago (Ed Bozarth in Park in Denver...)

 

[06 H3]

went I got mine done at the dealer it was $110! Must be a california thing...I went to firestone but they were kinda douchebags. Other firestones are great though. Its a store to store basis and I got stuck with a bunch of tools.

 

[07Custom]

haha good to know guys. i'll look into the tape measure method and see if anything is off. i haven't changed anything so it should still be fine. There isn't any abnormal tread wear either so lets hope it's all good! This is why I love you guys, you give me answers to my simple questions, and teach me why those answers are the correct ones. Thanks again!

 

[4speedfunk]

Next time....STRING STRING STRING! All you need is a 20-foot piece of string...a wife to hold one end of it...and a good eye to sight down the side.

TOE...
This is the easiest angle to adjust. Park on a completely level slab and center your steering wheel. Run a string from the rear tire to the front tire (from the midpoint of the tire). Adjust the tie-rod ends until your tire is sitting true and straight with the string (front to rear). Then do the other side the same way. You're looking for zero, and you should be able to get it within 1/8". Stand 20-30 feet in front of the truck and give it the eyeball to check it.

CAMBER...
Not an issue on a SA. It can be adjusted but bad camber on a SA is usually due to a bent axle tube or worn ball-joints. IFS guys can adjust camber using the eccentric bolts where the upper A-arms bolt to the frame. This is best left to a computerized alignment rack but, you can do it with a straight edge and a plumb-bob. Lots to know on this topic...and opinions are abundant.

CASTOR...
You can adjust the castor angle on your leaf-sprung front end by using shims. But, since your solid axle castor comes pre-set (and welded) from the factory...the range you can tweek it is very small. On a SA axle...you cannot change castor without changing pinion angle, and in most cases castor angle should always take presidence over pinion angle. However, too much angle at the front U-joint will result in driveline vibration at highway speeds. Too little castor will give you some serious handling issues (death wobble). For this reason, nearly all lifted SA rigs operate in a state of compromise between these two angles. What makes your H3 a special challenge is that it is full-time 4WD, and that means pinion angle requires more attention because you can't shut-off the front driveline on the highway like most other rigs. All the same...go with the castor angle, and let the pinion angle "be what it will be". 5 to 7 degrees of castor is the sweet spot. This will make your truck track properly, and bring the steering wheel back to center during turns.

Start at 5 to 7 degrees, and if you have vibration issues...you can try rotating your axle with 2-degree shims to point the yoke up toward the transfer case (to straighten the U-joint) and cancel the vibes. But be aware as you can only go so far before you adversely effect your castor. You'll know when you are getting close because your steering wheel will be lazy coming back to center, and you may start to feel some "shimmy" at high-way speeds...a sure sign that death-wobble is approaching. Try not to drop below 4 degrees of castor. If you still have vibes, you can try a CV-jointed driveshaft, or do as MaxPF suggested and (gulp)...tear the whole thing apart...then cut and re-weld the inner-C's. This latter mod is really the best way to insure proper castor/pinion relationship but, given the moderate lift of your truck...I doubt if this would be necessary. You'll probably end up somewhere in that "compromise range" that all other SA guys are familiar with. (I'll be right there with you).