Hunner Sleeve question/problem

[Bigunit]

Chris, the neoprene rubber gasket strip that Alex left with me last weekend is already headed your way. let me kow when it arrives and good luck!

 

[TXH3T]

Thanks Luis!

 

[alrock]

And Reaper, your custom rubbers are on their way as well.

 

[reaper]

And Reaper, your custom rubbers are on their way as well.

Can't wait!!!!! Gotta practice safe steering!

 

[TXH3T]

Got em today! Hopefully I can get them in soon. Ive been at school since 9 and wont leave till 840. Then HW then packing and dallas tomorrow. Busy weekend but if I get everything done should be early next week for replacement.

 

[Hunner]

I'll keep you posted. I've almost come to the conclusion that it frankly doesn't matter what you stuff in there. I fully expect everyone and their brother to jump on me for saying so, but under normal (even "normal" wheeling) conditions, I don't think you can really break the rack just from the play on the PS bushing. I just don't think you can push it that far outside of alignment, even with a worn bushing, without hitting something extremely hard to break it.

I think you figured it out!
I believe constant movement can weaken the rack over time and it would possibly break or then maybe a one time whack to finish it off. When mine broke I was climbing over rocks and a tire spun and grabbed, but nothing that was "abnormal" for my wheeling. Then I had really sloppy steering and almost went off the trail edge.
Either way I don't want to drive around with it doing this; videos


I would gladly refund your money if you want to return yours.
This was just my opinion of a way to prevent it for the past 60,000+ miles.

 

[08H3]

I would gladly refund your money if you want to return yours.
This was just my opinion of a way to prevent it for the past 60,000+ miles.

Very kind of you Hunner, but not at all necessary. It's nothing at all that you did or anything wrong with your part. It's just one of those freak circumstances. I'll still defend your sleeve as the quick easy answer for 99% of the trucks out there.

 

[TXH3T]

Very interesting development. I brought the truck back in to my dealer to have them install the sleeve with the rubber gasket free of charge again. I told them exactly what I wanted but forgot to mention the issue with the steering wheel not being straight. I figured I would mention it when I picked up the truck. They installed the sleeve like I asked and everything seemed great on the drive. Then I realized that amazingly (and rather strangely) the steering wheel was perfectly straight again. Now it could be just dumb luck but with the stock bushing in there it cocked left and once removed with less stress and the sleeve and rubber gasket material everything went straight. What do yall think? Also heres two pictures I snapped after taking it home

 

[alrock]

Maybe with the sleeve and OEM bushings it actually pushed the rack, and then the tie rod, out of spec so your steering was off. The Hunner sleeve and thin rubber are probably about equal to the thickness of the OEM bushing

 

[Hunner]

It is probably very close.

There is a flange on the OEM rubber on the side away from the cross member that makes is appear thicker in this picture.

The point was to NOT force the rack out of alignment by using a sleeve close to the same thickness.

 

[alrock]

So, looking at that photo he may have doubled the distance the rack sat from the crossmember when both the OEM bushing and Hunner sleeves were used. That would then end up pulling the tire out of alignment.

 

[Hunner]

I think so, some of that is hard to know for me without actually doing it the way he did. If it was enough to change the angle of the tie rod over to the knuckle, front to back rather than up and down, I guess it could make for strange steering. I'm not sure how forgiving the movement is at both ends of the tie rod before the steering wheel angle changes.
I know if you only adjust one tie rod you get the angle of your steering wheel off. If both are changed, one in and one out it will correct it to which ever direction you are trying to go to get it even, by which way you adjust them.
I have to think on that more after some sleep. lol

 

[TXH3T]

So another development. Seeing as how everything had been riding fine with my checks my friends and I loaded up to go camping and drove the route from Chino valley AZ to Flagstaff offroad. Great trip no problems but today the steering just didnt feel right so I looked under the truck and the sleeve has completely shifted so the teeth dont touch or line up. I don't want to drive it and I'm thankful Ive been riding my bicycle every day to school. What do you guys think I should do? Obviously the dirt roads and rocks did a number on it. Should I take it back and try to figure something else out? I don't have time right now to mess with it so Im debating whether to just throw the stock one back in or not. Thanks for the help everyone

 

[alrock]

May not be the sleeve. Check the recent posts in the steering rack thread

 

[Hunner]

Do you still have that OEM bush squished in there?

 

[TXH3T]

May not be the sleeve. Check the recent posts in the steering rack thread

Alright will do after my meetings and study groups today

Do you still have that OEM bush squished in there?

Nope I was running it with just the rubber that Alex was using

 

[Hunner]

Well you could put a NEW oem bush in there to at least get a grip on it, but we know how that will turn out after awhile.
I still think some grinding is the answer to a tight fit if yours is one for some reason that is not.
There is apparently some variables in the way that back bracket with the welded nut fit or it got crushed when there was a lot of movement.

Just had a news flash in my head. Scarry huh?
How many of you that are having problems with keeping things tight, that have not tried grinding the bracket and mating surface, are running 315 tires and have been since your original tires.

 

[TXH3T]

Hmm Would the jump from 285 to 315s make that much difference in wear? And Im having them put a stock one in till I can grind this thing and figure out how to get it working right for my truck.

 

[Hunner]

I can't say for sure but I have been running the 315 for the last 20,000 or so when I got some used on the Hutchinsons. I was a hold out for the 285 for a long time but tried these.
I have noticed some changes in how things are doing up front.
I'm going back to 285's for my winter set of tires for several reasons, mainly some long distance travel.
Here is something new I am going to try for those that have had problems.
I want to try to make this clear again, if you put 1/2 the sleeve in the bracket with it out of the vehicle, then put that in a vise and squeeze on the rounded part of the bracket you can get it to conform better to start with. I don't know how to explain that any better. I also suggested if you slightly over do that and the holes are off a bit try grinding out the lower hole as it has more bracket around it, just enough to allow you to line it up easier.
I'm going to go weld half of one 2 inch sleeeve on a bracket so I can see what that does for holding things together, as an option to grinding.
I still think squeezing, grinding, add neoprene and welding for hardcore fix along with flex lines and off center extra bracket with brace to drivers side bolt would be the culmination of all things to do the most reinforcing.
It has become obvious some people are just slapping the sleeve in there and not grinding or using the option of neoprene and that just won't cut it. The clamp has to be tight on the sleeve both with wheels on the ground and jacked up at full droop.

Got some work done.

 

[08H3]

Hunner-- That's exactly how I welded mine. So far so good at 2,000 miles. Rock solid.

 

[Hunner]

Good to hear that from somebody else.

I figure it might keep things together better in the rough stuff if the other end is still moving. I need to get it in and shoot some video.
It might be possible to make some up on an exchange program after I test it on my test track, Superlift Park.
I'm still not sure a completely solid mount is best. Then the seals in the passenger side will be taking more pressure and also the drivers side.
That's why I have "experimental vehicle" on my Alpha, that and taxes! lol

 

[backcountryislife]

I'll keep you posted. I've almost come to the conclusion that it frankly doesn't matter what you stuff in there. I fully expect everyone and their brother to jump on me for saying so, but under normal (even "normal" wheeling) conditions, I don't think you can really break the rack just from the play on the PS bushing. I just don't think you can push it that far outside of alignment, even with a worn bushing, without hitting something extremely hard to break it.

The two that actually broke on me this year were both in situations where I didn't hit anything hard. The first one I was on top of a rock with my driver's tire (swaybar connected) that was about 1' tall, and it shifted as I was cresting it... SNAP.

Second one, I let off the brake from a stop, rolled back about 6-8" on a 5-8% grade & hit a rock from behind the tire, the wheel spun and... snap.
Neither of these are at ALL what I would consider an extreme situation, and definitely not a very hard hit. The second one was a little more violent, but from such a small run in, it blows me away that it was able to break it.

This last one... I was driving down a dirt road with rocks... actually, about 1/4 mi from where this pic was taken:

And it suddenly came loose.
Hondas drive up this road.:gaah:

 

[backcountryislife]

Nope I was running it with just the rubber that Alex was using

With how weak the U strap is... I wonder if them putting the stock bushing (which should take up the entire space) and the hunner sleeve (which should take up almost the entire space) in there didn't bend it outward, so that it's not making a tight connection now (being that it is now holding 1/2 the material) with the frame & U strap.

Looking at my u straps/ mounts from my broken racks, they're pretty significantly bent (enough to notice, which I think is significant for something attached on both sides) which tells me they're pretty soft... I could see it bending from them compressing it too much the first time.

 

[Hunner]

I know of two people that are not on the forums much that told me they had bent several of those passenger's side straps as you call them that hold that end. I had never heard of that before. That got new ones and installed my sleeve and so far so good.
That sounds like even more pressure on that than I had first thought. However that happens, it's not good.
I think I should just come out there and wheel with backcountryislife and carry parts and tools. Research?
That is a scenic area.

 

[backcountryislife]

I know of two people that are not on the forums much that told me they had bent several of those passenger's side straps as you call them that hold that end. I had never heard of that before. That got new ones and installed my sleeve and so far so good.
That sounds like even more pressure on that than I had first thought. However that happens, it's not good.
I think I should just come out there and wheel with backcountryislife and carry parts and tools. Research?
That is a scenic area.

The things we're forced to do in the name of science huh???