777 Crash in SFO

[LagunaH1]

By now you all have learned about the tragic accident in San Francisco where a 777 crashed on landing, 2 people died.

Disclaimer: I am not a pilot, I am talking out of my ass and in general you shouldn't pay attention to anything I say but.....

Executing a visual approach and landing safely... isn't that like "flying 101"?

How did the pilots not realize they were far to slow and low except at the very last moments (1.5 seconds to impact)? As with most modern planes there are clear procedures, target speeds, decision altitudes etc etc that the pilots must be aware of....?

Anyways, we'll know more as the NTSB releases more details.

Those of you who are pilots, what do you think?

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

different planes, different sensations when flying it.
of course, San Fran doesn't want anyone to realize they own a part of this - they have special "quiet" rules for airplanes to land at the airport, so the pilot, beside having a nicely controlled crash err landing, needs to do so quietly....

plus, ever flown into that airport? It's pretty awesome sight seeing from the plane; not so much from the pilot's seat because all of those sights are also things to you need to avoid.... like the ****ing seawall.

also, most airports, you land after the numbers, not so with SFO, you need to pretty much hit before the numbers.... oh yeah, hit quietly or they'll fine you.

 

[Kyle]

different planes, different sensations when flying it.
of course, San Fran doesn't want anyone to realize they own a part of this - they have special "quiet" rules for airplanes to land at the airport, so the pilot, beside having a nicely controlled crash err landing, needs to do so quietly....

plus, ever flown into that airport? It's pretty awesome sight seeing from the plane; not so much from the pilot's seat because all of those sights are also things to you need to avoid.... like the ****ing seawall.

also, most airports, you land after the numbers, not so with SFO, you need to pretty much hit before the numbers.... oh yeah, hit quietly or they'll fine you.

What are these so called "san fran rules". Just curious


Sent from the top of a mountain in my h3

 

[Kurt]

Saw the new video thats out there, someone recorded the entire landing from crash. Plane was way too slow and low for the landing, and the trail and gears hit the sea barrier.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/v...f-plane-crash-on-cam.courtesy-fred-hayes.html

The pilot only had 10 flights on the 777 and the instruction pilot was a first time IP according to the pilot forums out there. One of the lead theories is you had an inexperienced pilot with double digit hours flight time on the platform and a teacher that should have known better than to assume auto throttle was on and sit there while the plane was falling.

Don't be surprised that this is 100% on everyone on the cockpit when the report comes out. The pilot standards for that airline must be amazing low for certification.

Apparently the one thing they did right was stay on board until all of the passengers were off, reports were they had to cut away at some of the inflatable ramps that inflated inwards into the cabin instead of out the door, and a few of the air crew cut passengers out of seat belts.

One of the casualities was hit by a firetruck and wasn't actually killed by the crash

 

[Chook]

The only other 777 crash the cause was found to be ice build up in the fuel lines. After long flights ice build up in the line (just like plaque build up in your arteries) but when the go full fuel (like they would of here) the ice dislodges and blocks the fuel line. Might be the case here also but agree the media seems to be beating up on the Pilot & Trainer.

 

[ArtHummer]

One thing I don't understand out off all this is how da f**k did a Fire Truck run over some one so bad that the person died???? Seriously???

 

[Bigunit]

Another factor to add to the anaysis of potential "causes" - the SF airport Glide Path navigation system was off on the day of the accident for routine maintenence. The system helps pilots make safe descents and is designed specifically to prevent runway misses. It's also normal for an airport to turn the system off for maintenence on a clear day but in this instance when you add the "newbie" pilot factor into the analysis, it really makes you wonder.

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1373245460.html

 

[LagunaH1]

I keep wondering what happened that caused the plane to slow as much as it did. Was the auto-throttle not working? Supposedly the pilots had set the autopilot to maintain a certain speed. Maybe they weren't monitoring the actual airspeed until it was too late?

This is obviously total speculation on my part but *IF* this plane had the same issue as the BA 777 that crashed on landing a few years ago (ice crystal buildup in the fuel oil heat exchanger leading to fuel starvation), then I can see how maybe the engines didn't respond to the auto-throttle's commands to increase power.

 

[Chook]

With all the Auto stuff any pilot could fly the thing as long as he knew what buttons to push, but an experienced pilot is one that can overcome most obstacles. I think back to the A380 mid air engine explosion out of Singapore, the system said the aircraft had more than 127 critical failures and so amazed that guy got it down safely. Its a bit like that old 4wd saying "Any 4wd will take you offroad, a good one though will also bring you back !!!"

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

One thing I don't understand out off all this is how da f**k did a Fire Truck run over some one so bad that the person died???? Seriously???

it's damn easy to mistake that human in the runway for debris - I saw a picture ages ago where a motorcycle went down, ruptured the tank, the roasted both the driver and the passenger.... all you could see were three black lumps on the ground, it took some looking to realize that two of those lumps were bodies.


as for the landing rules... I'm drawing a blank on the name of the blasted book.... there's a "book" (actually on the internet now) that gives you all the things you need to know about specific airports, how to land, where the tower is, etc..... in that book, they'll tell you things like whether the runways are lighted, whether the control tower is manned, if you have to call a nearby tower (which used to be the way to land at Troutdale, OR - you'd call PDX control tower), and on and on. In that book, it says what the noise rules are as well.... damn, damn, damn.... I best not lose my certification, that's a prominent part of the written test..... here's the website
http://aspm.faa.gov/opsnet/sys/Main.asp?force=atads

but it used to be called the brown book or something completely unrelated like that....

I'll say this - I've got several thousand hours of flight time (single engine, fixed wing), and I pucker ever single damn time I land - I don't even care if it's a 2 mile long landing strip or 1100' that is at my parent's house..... VFR landings are awful.... granted, IFR landings make me shake for days - which, would explain why I told the Navy to *blank off* when they asked me to join several decades ago

 

[deserth3]

When the reports come out there will be many things that pile up on a crew that lead to a crash. Here are just a few.

The Glide Slope Airport Instrumentation for this runway has been inoperative since June. This is a big one. The glide slope is the angle of approach a plane needs to follow to properly hit the touch down zone. If a plane (meaning commersial airline type) drops below this imaginary line the pilot will hear an audio glide slope warning with sometype of visual indicator.
So if a plane starts to go too slow the first indication will be a Glide Slope warning. Stall warnings and stick shaker come way later when the plane is actually about to stall and this plane was too low to recover. A jet engine takes a good 10 seconds to spool up to speed.

The pilot had an instructor pilot watching him. I'd love to hear the audio tapes of their interations. Because it seems like everyone forgot to look out the winshield to see where they are going.

Pilots follow checklists.... and more checklists....and more checklists....
Now what happens if the tower interupts a checklist, the pilots are not allowed to start where they were interupted at. They have to start that checklist from the beginning. This can easily set them behind the 8 ball.

These are just a few things I have learned.