E10 Or Pure Gasoline: Which is better value?

[08H3]

I can't find any concrete numbers on this. I know 10% ethanol blends will yield lower MPG, but not sure by how much. Our local Countrymark distributor has 87 octane blended with 10% ethanol or 91 octane pure gasoline. The 87 is $3.65/gallon and the gasoline is $3.97/gallon. Which one of these is the better value in terms of MPG/$? There has to be a formula, but I can't find it.

 

[f5moab]

E10 may reduce up to 1-3 percent.
200 miles traveled, 16 mpg means you burned 12.5 gallons. At 3.65 per gallon it would cost you 45.62
200 miles traveled, 16.5 mpg means you burned 12.12 gallons. At 3.97 per gallon it would cost you 48.12

All this is on assumptions you would get 16 mpg with E10.

Also, octane is only a knock reducer.

E10 is not bad for the H3 engines or fuel system. E15 might be, but is only sold in certain states. And I say might be, since the auto manufacturers have not had time to do any extensive testing. E85, which can only be used in Flex Fuel vehicles, reduced fuel mileage by about 20 percent (and you can easily use E15 in a noted Flex Fuel vehicle.

 

[08H3]

Thanks! That 1-3% number was what I could not find definitively anywhere.

 

[TheGunnyRet]

ANY ethanol blend is crap and it’s all a big farce. It doesn't do anything better to improve anything be it environment or mileage. It is a big sales gimmick and subsudies scam for the Govt....

 

[f5moab]

ANY ethanol blend is crap and it’s all a big farce. It doesn't do anything better to improve anything be it environment or mileage. It is a big sales gimmick and subsudies scam for the Govt....

I will totally agree with that. I have an E85 capable Silverado and I'll be damned if I will ever burn anything but a max of 10 percent ethanol in it. And living here in Moab, I have no choice really; everything is 10 percent. One of the biggest problems with ethanol is it takes almost as much energy to produce a gallon as it does in saving a gallon of gasoline. And then use it in a large vehicle and your mileage goes to **** so how does it make sense? Large farming corporations like Gargill, ADM, etc., make millions of it. And they donate a ton of money to both parties for congress as well as presidents.

But it will not hurt the H3...but be aware, E15 is starting to spread and the car/truck manufacturers have pretty much stated they will not cover damage done by E15 under warranty, and most dealers have a way to check for ethanol content in the fuel.

 

[08H3]

I frankly don't care what I put in my H3-- gasoline, ethanol, or goat pee. It doesn't matter to me provided it won't cause damage or drivability issues. I'm cheap, so that's the overriding issue. I will say, however, that the pure gasoline is invaluable for small engines. Every issue I had with chainsaws, trimmers, etc. went away once I was able to find 0% ethanol again.

 

[Chook]

Never use ethanol fuel (even in engines that say they can use ethanol) where it will sit in the tank not used regularly as it has water issues that will damage your engine.

 

[TheGunnyRet]

Thats down under "A mate", here in the US we have the Enviro Nazis and control Libs. Though got a question for you, is Walkinshaw Performance still making the Supercharger setup for the H3 I5??? V8 Supercars rule.

 

[Chook]

......... got a question for you, is Walkinshaw Performance still making the Supercharger setup for the H3 I5???

Still appears on their website .......... http://www.walkinshawperformance.com.au/wp/au/products/default.asp?content=hummer&id=32 ............... While this setup looks neat (@ $12k its a bit expensive - but you can research/buy the individual parts separately for about 5K less) . Vortech also make a H3 I5 Supercharger kit which is highly recommended http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=151 (Nugget had the Vortech fitted to his I5 H3 before he sold it). Note: Vortech site says it is out of production but there are still kits available from resellers.

 

[Steve #1]

When I visit my parents I fill up at a station that has pure 87 and it is the same price as any other cheep station in the area. Since it is only about a mile out of my way I normally fill up there. I've never seen any significant difference in mileage on this 140 mile trip that couldn't be attributed just as easily to wind or temperature.

E85 on the other hand, one of the higher ups at work decided we needed to run it in our Tahoes. After a month we found it cost over 25% more to use the E85 so we went back to E10.

 

[MaxPF]

Here's some numbers for the nerds:

Fuel	Specific Energy (MJ/kg)	Energy Density (MJ/L)
CNG (250 bar/3600psi)	53.6	9.0
LPG (aka propane)	49.6	25.3
Gasoline	46.4	34.2
Diesel Fuel	46.2	37.3
100LL Avgas	44.0	31.59
Gasohol, E10	43.54	33.18
Jet A/JP-8 Jet Fuel	42.8	33.0
Biodiesel	42.20	33.0
Gasohol, E85	33.1	25.65
Ethanol	30.0	24.0

Since fuel is sold by volume, and usage is calculated by volume, the energy density column is the most relevant. The difference in energy density is 3% between straight gasoline and E10, according to this chart. E85 is terrible, having only 75% as much energy per gallon as straight gasoline. using a bit of simple math we find the energy density of E15 is 32.67 MJ/L, which is 4.5% less than straight gas. For us oil burners, biodiesel has 13% less energy per gallon vs straight diesel fuel. The energy of straight gasoline varies a bit depending on whether it is summer or winter fuel, with summer fuel being a bit more dense (due to more heavier fractions) and this having a tad more energy by volume. Diesel fuel is likewise variable, with cold weather diesel being cut with lighter #1, and this having a bit less density than straight #2. If fuel were sold by weight rather than volume, then the lighter fuels would be better since they contain a higher percentage of hydrogen, which has much more energy per mass than carbon. Alcohols and biodiesel contain oxygen in their molecules, which adds weight and bulk without adding energy. This is why their specific energy and energy density are both lower than pure hydrocarbons.

 

[TheGunnyRet]

You forgot Propane / LNG?

 

[MaxPF]

You forgot Propane / LNG?

Added to the list.