P0201, and EBCM out - Took to Dealer and had a heart attack.

[H32NV]

Background:

Getting a Traction Control Failed error AND P0201 CEL on the Instrument Panel, shortly after startup. 2007 H3 Lux/adv, 3.7L. Took it to dealer, Dealer says it is the EBCM, it's not communicating at all, and that they possibly also see a burned out solenoid in the ABS module controller. This info came from their Tech II. Nothing comes up on my scangauge except P0201, and I replaced the MAF, no help there.

I pointed out that at one point, I cut a wire by mistake, in the bundle that goes from in front of the parking brake to the hood compartment. I did the best I could to repair it(stripped, tinned, shrinked), and it seemed to be working fine for the last few years, re-checked the connections, nothing has changed. I asked them to check the wiring anyway. I'm not sure how you would do that without doing a connectivity test on wires of interest(looked at scwartzzy diagrams and checked those grounds and such). They said that the wiring is good.

Anyway, looks like the EBCM is dead. Not responding to any communications, but I saw his Tech II plugged into the OBD-II Port(which obviously is on the far side of the fixed wire).

They recommended replacing the EBCM and then scanning again after to see if there are more codes.

To replace it, I have a set of instructions on installation and bleeding etc, my question is: Does it need programming by a dealer to work? Or can I Plug and Play?


These guys want $1100 for the part, and $300 for labor. I found what I think to be the part on amazon for $196. I'm down to pay 40% upcharge on parts and the labor(which would total around $600), but at that price, It might be worth it to replace it myself.... Is this the correct part?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H91928E/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
AC Delco - 25939761 ABS Control Module


P0201 is a code that says what the MAF is reading is too low for where the TB says it is. Does the MAF/TB signal ever go through a EBCM for a traction control purpose or some kind of systems check on startup? If I clear the P0201 code after it comes on, it goes away forever, until I shutdown and re-start the truck. Engine runs great, and fuel economy is normal, however MAF numbers on my scangauge dont make sense.



Thanks,

Rob

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

so I understand what you're talking about - there are two controllers in a Hummer H3, a BCM, which controls most of the interior stuff; and the ECM which controls the motor.... which one is toast? and there are better options available to you for price - one of the sponsors on here iirc gmpartsoutlet.com generally is 50% of whatever the dealer wants.... and as a friend in a dealership told me, the 50% upcharge is for the dealership to order it for you and to warranty it.... which, if it's something which takes an amazing amount of labor to fix, is a good thing. A ECM is pretty easy to change (as is the BCM), then you have to pay an hour for them to program it.

with that said, it may not actually be the BCM or ECM. I had huge troubles with my airbag system, and it turned out to be a faulty connection... perhaps get a second opinion from someone who doesn't have a vested interest in selling you expensive parts?


on my Land Rover, I had the classic 3 amigos warning lights - and the replacement bit was 1100; I bought a used, guaranteed one from a wrecking yard for $125 delivered....

 

[H32NV]

well. There are actually 4 computers, I believe.

ECM(Engine Control Module), BCM(Body Control Module), EBCM(Electronic Brake Control Module), and TCCM(Transmission Control Computer Module)

The EBCM is toast. I would pay 50% upcharge on parts. That would be $300 plus labor, totaling $600. But $1100 for just the part? That equates to roughly 580% markup by the time it gets to the dealer.

Havent checked GMpartsoutlet, but Amazon is $195... if that's the correct part..

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

is it returnable if it's the wrong part? Amazon has some weird policies about returns...

when I replaced one of the two airbag computers, it was $480 from the outlet; but from GM it was $1200 - so I'm not surprised by that profit margin.

when I bought my part, there was question as to whether or not that actually was the problem - so I made a deal with the dealership, either a) I'd buy the part from them and if the light was on, they'd have to refund my money; or b) I buy the part, pay them to install it and they warranty the work (I was concerned that if it wasn't the problem or there was an additional problem, I'd have to buy a second controller - like a dead short). They went with B - and went well beyond the billed hours (4) to repair the issue because it was a contact issue in addition to the controller blowing up (yeah, I know, the contact issue may have blown up the OE controller)

forgot one bit - once the airbag controller was burned with the VIN, it was unreturnable...

 

[H32NV]

Well, I suppose a second opinion would be good. It would cost about $100, the usual diagnostic fee for shops around here. I dont know who else to take it to that would be reliable. I took it to Dale down at Medved Hummer of Colorado Springs. He is about as good as it gets, or so I hear. And "EBCM is toast" was his first diagnosis after checking the wiring.

I hear that Medved Wheatridge is still a shaky operation. Who else in the Denver Metro Area is good at this stuff?

 

[f5moab]

Background:

Getting a Traction Control Failed error AND P0201 CEL on the Instrument Panel, shortly after startup. 2007 H3 Lux/adv, 3.7L. Took it to dealer, Dealer says it is the EBCM, it's not communicating at all, and that they possibly also see a burned out solenoid in the ABS module controller. This info came from their Tech II. Nothing comes up on my scangauge except P0201, and I replaced the MAF, no help there.

I pointed out that at one point, I cut a wire by mistake, in the bundle that goes from in front of the parking brake to the hood compartment. I did the best I could to repair it(stripped, tinned, shrinked), and it seemed to be working fine for the last few years, re-checked the connections, nothing has changed. I asked them to check the wiring anyway. I'm not sure how you would do that without doing a connectivity test on wires of interest(looked at scwartzzy diagrams and checked those grounds and such). They said that the wiring is good.

Anyway, looks like the EBCM is dead. Not responding to any communications, but I saw his Tech II plugged into the OBD-II Port(which obviously is on the far side of the fixed wire).

They recommended replacing the EBCM and then scanning again after to see if there are more codes.

To replace it, I have a set of instructions on installation and bleeding etc, my question is: Does it need programming by a dealer to work? Or can I Plug and Play?


These guys want $1100 for the part, and $300 for labor. I found what I think to be the part on amazon for $196. I'm down to pay 40% upcharge on parts and the labor(which would total around $600), but at that price, It might be worth it to replace it myself.... Is this the correct part?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H91928E/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
AC Delco - 25939761 ABS Control Module


P0201 is a code that says what the MAF is reading is too low for where the TB says it is. Does the MAF/TB signal ever go through a EBCM for a traction control purpose or some kind of systems check on startup? If I clear the P0201 code after it comes on, it goes away forever, until I shutdown and re-start the truck. Engine runs great, and fuel economy is normal, however MAF numbers on my scangauge dont make sense.



Thanks,

Rob

P0201 is a failure in fuel injector 1's control circuit.

Are your brakes working?

What failure did you get that directs you toward the EBCM? Usually you will get a P1381 or a U1040 if the PCM or BCM loses comm with the brake controller.

Tech II is a pretty damn good tool for diagnosing a problem, a lot better than a scan gauge by a million miles; however, if the module is not communicating with the BCM or PCM the they will usually set one of the previous stated codes.

The BCM, being the mother of the controllers, is always in contact with her little kids (PCM/TCCM/EBCM/TCM-ECM if so equipped)/Radio/HVAC, etc.) when one stops communicating the BCM turns sets a code.

Does the signal go directly into the EBCM? NO. It goes into the PCM (you technically do not have a stand alone ECM, but don't want to get too technical since it pisses people off:giggle. However from there the PCM takes that info, regugitates it and sends it on to the BCM (the BCM is the main controller for the vehicle) and then possibly onto the EBCM, all via the serial data line.

 

[H32NV]

Hi Doug!

I apologize, I made a mistake, the code is P0102, which comes up as a CEL. Then I'm getting the Traction Control light as well. Both lights occur simultaneously right after startup. Read the code with the ScanGauge, saw the MAF error, Replaced the MAF, didnt go away. So off to the Dealer it went, for a scan with a Tech II.


Dale at Medved called back and told me that it was the EBCM. I told him to check the wiring, he said it was good. I'm still suspicious. There are two or three fixes in there, that I have done a good job with, but sometimes changing the impedance(adding a solder joint) of those data lines makes them act funny, at least it does in the ultra-high speed equipment that I work with everyday in the laboratory. I'm not sure which lines were the ones that I fixed, one was a white wire with a black stripe(possibly 22Ga) and the other was a thick orange wire(possibly 12Ga). Dale is still under the impression that the EBCM needs to be replaced, and then he was going to scan again with the Tech II for more information. He can't see anything right now because the EBCM is not reading, and he says that usually means that they are fried. This is just his opinion though, although he has the best reputation at least for any Hummer Tech around here.

My brakes are working just fine, obviously not biased anymore, but they are equally distributed, which I am to assume is the default when the stabilitrac fails for any reason.

Its just weird that these two alarms are happening at the same time, one is the MAF and the other is the Traction Control. Part of me still thinks its a connection somewhere, but Dale says it isnt....


This one is just a bit beyond me guys. I appreciate everyone chiming in to help. And you can get as tech-y as you want with me Doug!

 

[Zach]

The correct part number is 25939761. Gm suggested list is $564.60.

 

[chaos254]

Is the scan gauge capable of reading codes for traction control? I know it can do CELs but that could be why its not showing any codes for the traction control system.

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[H32NV]

No. I think it can only do CELs. At least Mine will not read trans codes.

 

[alrock]

Hey, when the heck did you move from Flagstaff?

 

[H32NV]

Hey Alrock! I moved from flagstaff back to my hometown of Golden in November '13.

***UPDATE***

Last night as I was driving through Golden, upon startup after filling, the STAB SYS light did not come on, and the P0102 CEL did not come on. The truck ran perfectly for about ten miles, the MAF was reading correctly on my scan gauge, as was the MPG. Then both lights came back on simultaneously and the MAF no longer read correctly.

This morning, the same routine continues, STAB SYS light comes on, and P0102 CEL shortly after.

How does it start working again if the EBCM is blown out? I am re-circling back to my original theory that a pin connection has gone bad somewhere, or its in one of my repair jobs. Even though the dealer wants to replace the module...

Anybody? $0.02?

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Hey Alrock! I moved from flagstaff back to my hometown of Golden in November '13.

***UPDATE***

Last night as I was driving through Golden, upon startup after filling, the STAB SYS light did not come on, and the P0102 CEL did not come on. The truck ran perfectly for about ten miles, the MAF was reading correctly on my scan gauge, as was the MPG. Then both lights came back on simultaneously and the MAF no longer read correctly.

This morning, the same routine continues, STAB SYS light comes on, and P0102 CEL shortly after.

How does it start working again if the EBCM is blown out? I am re-circling back to my original theory that a pin connection has gone bad somewhere, or its in one of my repair jobs. Even though the dealer wants to replace the module...

Anybody? $0.02?

If the dealer isn't even mentioning the pin problem - seriously, get another company to service your H3. It took me 20 different mechanics before I finally found one who even mentioned the pin problem.... they don't like the job because it means taking every plug apart, cleaning the pin, then reassembling the plug. I'd honestly bet there's more than 200 pin connections.... PITA, I know, but it's a known issue with H3s (there is a TSB on the pin issue).

with that said, if you get a mechanic to listen to you - hard to find with many of the monkeys who call themselves dealer techs - but tell them to use their scan tool and read the voltages that's coming back from the pings - if the voltage is coming back low (that's the CEL you're getting), then they need to unplug and replug every point in that line. If that clears it, he can actually trace which wires have the low voltage by unplugging at each point then testing continuity again. He should be able to find the wire using that method. It's time consuming. Once they do find out it was not the controller, demand your money back for the controller - by rights, they should refund that and charge the cost to find the break.... most times, that'd be quite a refund. In my case, they didn't charge me for the diagnose/repair of the wire (which would have been a lot ~20 hours).

that said, I've had to replace the MAF and the throttle body and the pedal to clear a similar code.

 

[H32NV]

If the dealer isn't even mentioning the pin problem - seriously, get another company to service your H3. It took me 20 different mechanics before I finally found one who even mentioned the pin problem.... they don't like the job because it means taking every plug apart, cleaning the pin, then reassembling the plug. I'd honestly bet there's more than 200 pin connections.... PITA, I know, but it's a known issue with H3s (there is a TSB on the pin issue).

I've had to replace two connectors for ignition coils, and the MAF plug. All assumed to be bad pin connections...

Do you have any information on the TSB? I paid them $120 for a diagnostic, and I feel like they didnt tell me anything new. I did mention pins/broken wires to them...

-Rob

 

[H32NV]

Just found a TSB with a simple internet search, and it came up on TSB's for 2007 Hummer H3's.

TRACTION CONTROL SYSTEM
NHTSA# 10037571
TSB# PIT-3929C, 302184

GM Service Stability Track light ON, w/1 internal trouble code. (Yep, that sounds like its a winner).


Do we have any ability to look these up? Most sites want to sign up for a service.

Thanks,

Rob

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Just found a TSB with a simple internet search, and it came up on TSB's for 2007 Hummer H3's.

TRACTION CONTROL SYSTEM
NHTSA# 10037571
TSB# PIT-3929C, 302184

GM Service Stability Track light ON, w/1 internal trouble code. (Yep, that sounds like its a winner).


Do we have any ability to look these up? Most sites want to sign up for a service.

Thanks,

Rob

I don't, but your dealer should print it out for you....

 

[chaos254]

Any updates? Did you replace that module?

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