rear locker?

[digglesworth]

So I have a base model. No 4:1. No rear locker. Would I be better off buying a new elocker and having a shop put it in my existing diff or should I find a used one that is already complete and just swap it out with my rear end and be done with it? I'm not capable of installing a locker myself but I think I could swap rear ends with a complete unit.

 

[Highatop]

If you go back a page or two. There was just a thread written and reponses posted on this same subject just recently. 4speed thinks it would be easier, to just swap out the whole rear and be done w/ it. I kindda agree, I think. Me havin limited wrenchin skills puts me in a tough spot. Not knowin what I'm gettin from whoever or where ever. So that also said, makes me look at an Elocker w/ its own switch so I can engage the locker even in 4Hi...

 

[digglesworth]

I'm in the same boat. I think it'd be cheaper to just replace the whole rear, as long as you know it's a good unit. Replace a few seals and pop it in. It's nice not having the adv pkge cause we can wire the locker in independently and use it in 4hi. I'll see if I can find that topic.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

it is not hard to simply swap a carrier - what's hard is setting the pinion depth. When you ONLY change the carrier, you won't have to change the pinion depth; therefore, it is a DIY type job. The only really important bit is keeping your shims on the correct side and putting the caps back in the same position.

I did a full-locker stuff on my H3, however, I already had the rear done so it was a matter of cutting a wire and putting a resistor in to fool the computer into thinking there was still a locker there - with your H3's equipment, you won't have to worry about that

 

[digglesworth]

If I would buy the locker new, what is involved in swapping it with what I currently have? Axles? Gears? I know I'll have to wire the switch for the locker but that's really the least of my worries. I've seen the eatons for $7-800.... Wonder what a shop would charge me to install it.

 

[4speedfunk]

My axle guy charges $250 to swap a diff and install an Eaton. That includes gear set-up and also drilling the case for the pigtail. He ups the price to $300 if you bring him a bare housing. This takes more time because he has to measure the pinion depth from scratch, instead of just adjusting it from what was already in place. Some axles require a case-spreader but the GM 10-bolt is not one of them, so its a pretty easy swap. The only special tool you need is an inch-pound gauge to verify pinion pre-load.

SuperBuick is right...a carrier swap is not a big deal. Just keep your shims in order. Put everything back in place with a new crush-sleeve and pinion seal...check the pinion pre-load...check the contact pattern with some marking compound...make any corrections...THEN GO FIND SOME MUD! You should be aware however...sometimes its easy to destroy bearings pressing them off the old carrier & pinion gear. Go slow and use a good bearing plate, most of the time you can save em.

Lastly...rear axle shafts on the H3 can be tricky. After you pull the C-clips, you will have to pry on the ends of the axle shafts to get them to slide out. Do this from inside the window of the carrier, AND NOT FROM THE WHEEL FLANGES. This latter technique will result in mangled axle seals. The problem is that the ABS rings are glued onto the axle shafts. Once you overcome the glue...the rings will slide on the shafts, and they'll pull right out. But that first inch or so can be a wrestling match.

 

[digglesworth]

Thanks cj.... I'm trying to weigh out my options. I don't think I wanna try and install one myself. Seems pretty straightforward though. I just don't want a shop to rape me cause they think us hummer owners are made of money. Jegs has the Eaton for $699 and it looks like there's a rebate on top of that. I dunno what I could find a used diff w/ locker for if I can even find one locally. Or if I can find a used carrier from someone.

 

[digglesworth]

I know what you mean by the rear axles being tricky. I replaced both rear axle seals and had to pry the axles outta the tubes. It all went pretty good though.

 

[06 H3]

Finding a whole diff assembly will be tough...I say for the ease of it just buy the locker and install it. Seeing your not regearing or anything that will make life a lot easier. CJ when I installed my e locker years ago (I was a non adv pack also)

I remember the axle shafts can be a bit of a pain to get out but I dont remember the details like ABS rings glued onto the shaft, if thats the case swapping in a bigger rear axle seems easier then I thought. Just drill a hole into the 14 bolt (or whatever axle you use) and press on the tone rings, the tough part is figuring out what glue GM used, Elmers or gorilla glue. :huh::wink:

 

[digglesworth]

When I did my axle seals, the axles slid out and back in pretty easily. The rings reseated themselves back in the right spot since I haven't had any issues since. I might start calling around to shops and see what they say.

 

[4speedfunk]

Yup...I did all that same stuff when I re-geared to 5.13s. (I also destroyed the seals from prying on them). It wasn't until I got them out that I truly understood the issue. The shafts are tapered, and the taper is such that the rings get tight...right where they are supposed to. Pretty clever really. The rings have some sort of rubber material bonded to the ID and that has a coating of some nasty black stuff on them.

I have some brand new rear tone rings...still in the GM wrappers. They come pre-glued with the same nasty-ass black stuff already applied to the ID of them. Its very much like "GM Side-Moulding Adhesive"...and I think it is there to prevent the rings from spinning on the shafts. I stuck my axles back in using the same rings and the same nasty glue they came with. No problems since.

 

[4speedfunk]

06H3...I think you could do what you suggest on the 14-bolt. Depending on the axle shaft diameter...you might have to ream the ID of the tone rings to get them to slide down on the 14-bolt shafts (I assume they would be larger). Once you get them in the sweet spot...I think you could drill & tap a small hole in the rings, and install a set screw (with lock-tite of course). That would capture them and keep them in alignment with your sensor holes on the tubes. You don't want those sliding back & forth on the shafts.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Keep in mind, your rear pinion options are pretty elaborate because it's simply an 8.5 GM differential (which they've been putting into cars since the early 70s). The front differential gets spendy because there are only 2 options.

 

[4speedfunk]

Yeah...that 8.6 (formerly 8.5) 10-bolt has been the workhorse axle for everything GM. I really don't have any issues with them, (especially these late-model ones). They seem plenty robust and they're very small and lightweight. Disc brakes, ABS, lots of gear options...I'm fine with it.

I hear rumors that the Cherokee guys are gobbling up the Adv. Pak versions. Its a bolt-in for XJs...comes pre-assembled with 4.56s, e-locker and disc brakes...all the crap the Jeep guys want. They run 5-lug wheel adapters to use Jeep wheels. The Ford 8.8 has long been the "go-to" axle for these guys but, those don't come with a locker or low gears. Jeep guys prove their resourcefulness time and time again. If there is a cheap mod to improve their rigs...they'll find it! Don't be surprised if you have to compete with them to score a take-out H3 axle.

 

[digglesworth]

I'm not sure what the going rate is for a used axle or where to even begin looking for one. I'm pretty sure finding one locally will be tough.

 

[06 H3]

Yup...I did all that same stuff when I re-geared to 5.13s. (I also destroyed the seals from prying on them). It wasn't until I got them out that I truly understood the issue. The shafts are tapered, and the taper is such that the rings get tight...right where they are supposed to. Pretty clever really. The rings have some sort of rubber material bonded to the ID and that has a coating of some nasty black stuff on them.

I have some brand new rear tone rings...still in the GM wrappers. They come pre-glued with the same nasty-ass black stuff already applied to the ID of them. Its very much like "GM Side-Moulding Adhesive"...and I think it is there to prevent the rings from spinning on the shafts. I stuck my axles back in using the same rings and the same nasty glue they came with. No problems since.

So I take it you cant run an aftermarket chromoly shaft for the 10 bolt without some type of modification such as the tone rings and making sure the OD tapers down too?

06H3...I think you could do what you suggest on the 14-bolt. Depending on the axle shaft diameter...you might have to ream the ID of the tone rings to get them to slide down on the 14-bolt shafts (I assume they would be larger). Once you get them in the sweet spot...I think you could drill & tap a small hole in the rings, and install a set screw (with lock-tite of course). That would capture them and keep them in alignment with your sensor holes on the tubes. You don't want those sliding back & forth on the shafts.

Interesting, I may keep that in mind for the future. Not sure if I will blow up the 10 bolt but its an interesting idea. People bag on these 10 bolts all day long and I have no complaints. They seem stout and I lock it up when I ask it to and can spin the tires turning both 35s and never worry about breaking. Maybe its because I am so cautious on the front.

Yeah...that 8.6 (formerly 8.5) 10-bolt has been the workhorse axle for everything GM. I really don't have any issues with them, (especially these late-model ones). They seem plenty robust and they're very small and lightweight. Disc brakes, ABS, lots of gear options...I'm fine with it.

I hear rumors that the Cherokee guys are gobbling up the Adv. Pak versions. Its a bolt-in for XJs...comes pre-assembled with 4.56s, e-locker and disc brakes...all the crap the Jeep guys want. They run 5-lug wheel adapters to use Jeep wheels. The Ford 8.8 has long been the "go-to" axle for these guys but, those don't come with a locker or low gears. Jeep guys prove their resourcefulness time and time again. If there is a cheap mod to improve their rigs...they'll find it! Don't be surprised if you have to compete with them to score a take-out H3 axle.

I find that comical, I can only imagine what the joke is when the first guy came out and said look for an H3 rear axle.

I'm not sure what the going rate is for a used axle or where to even begin looking for one. I'm pretty sure finding one locally will be tough.

I would say just go for the locker. Get a new one. It may be tougher to install but it will be easier then searching for hours on end and having it freighted over to your house.

 

[4speedfunk]

So I take it you cant run an aftermarket chromoly shaft for the 10 bolt without some type of modification such as the tone rings and making sure the OD tapers down too?

I assume cro-mo axles would have the same taper. If not, then it might be a problem.

People bag on these 10 bolts all day long and I have no complaints.

True. Off-roaders immediately knee-jerk react to ultimate in strength. They try to stuff the biggest baddest parts under their rigs but, the lowly old 10-bolt serves its purpose perfectly. I have heard of very few rear axle failures, and I consider it one of the few components on the H3 that GM got right! Its not exotic or awesome...but it is very adequate for most of us.

I find that comical, I can only imagine what the joke is when the first guy came out and said look for an H3 rear axle.

Haha...so true. An $800 H3 rear axle under a $400 Cherokee! Typical "Jeep" psychology, and I love those guys for how they think.

I would say just go for the locker. Get a new one. It may be tougher to install but it will be easier then searching for hours on end and having it freighted over to your house.

Agreed. I would cap the price of a used one at $700 rotor-to-rotor. If you can score one for that...then its worth it. Otherwise just buy a new diff. It will have zero wear and it will also be Eaton's new and improved version. If you do end up finding a used one...inspect the locker pins for wear and call up Eaton (or GM) to order the rebuild kit for it, if necessary. There are so many mall-crawler H3's that I'm sure some of them have never even been engaged. Many Adv. Pak owners are so completely stupid about lockers...AND THATS WHY GM LIMITS THEM TO LOW-RANGE via the puter. Otherwise...mommy would be driving around for years scrubbing rubber off at every corner!

 

[digglesworth]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll be looking for a new one I think. I saw one on Jegs for $699 w/ $70 rebate. I got an email in to Adventure Accessories here in st. louis (they're supposedly hummer experts)... Hopefully they'll tell me the install is in the $200-300 range. I suppose $1000 is acceptable to get a new rear locker. Then I gotta find a 4:1 t case.
So what parts will I have to buy with the locker? Shims? Bearings? Seals? Etc??

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll be looking for a new one I think. I saw one on Jegs for $699 w/ $70 rebate. I got an email in to Adventure Accessories here in st. louis (they're supposedly hummer experts)... Hopefully they'll tell me the install is in the $200-300 range. I suppose $1000 is acceptable to get a new rear locker. Then I gotta find a 4:1 t case.
So what parts will I have to buy with the locker? Shims? Bearings? Seals? Etc??

if you're maintaining the same gear ratio, just fluids and (I suppose) silicone for the cover.