Torsion Bar Key

[SolidusJ]

Yeah...you need to rotate the keys one click. Your A-arms are sitting way too flat for the bolts to be bottomed-out like that. This is probably the result of someone installing the bars & keys with the truck sitting on the ground. Its an easy fix but, you do need a jack. Take the keys completely out, and let the front suspension fall to full droop...then re-install them. This time however, rotate the keys one "flat" (on the hex of the torsion bar) from where they are now, so you can take advantage of the full length of the bolt. You should barely be able to get the bolt started...and you might even have to take the shocks loose to get enough droop to get em in. Then do the leveling procedure. Piece o cake....Ten minutes.BTW...thats one of the cleanest bellies I've ever seen on an H3.

Picture was taken when I cam back home in July, it looks nothing like tha now! I think I have almost 10lbs of mud a crud under ther that I've been trying to clean for a week now. Which way would I trun the keys to fix my leaving?

 

[SolidusJ]

As far as the adjustment, this video is a little crude, but pretty much it explains how to do it...[video=youtube;FRIsmboMwDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRIsmboMwDs[/video]

A video to remove the keys and reinstall is what I'm looking for.

 

[Gunner_45]

It is a LOT easier with the weight off the front end.

 

[ReconH3]

It is a LOT easier with the weight off the front end.

What he said.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

 

[FOXedupONE]

Do hummers have metric or sae bolts? I thought everything has gone over to metric even Harley's and domestic. Don't tell me I need another set of tools...

 

[Hunner]

Question is,,,, how did those keys get set like that?
Did somebody "lower" it???:shifty:
Did you buy the truck new?
We quit using the number of "turns" as a method to determine how much we raised it way back. There were too many variables in different set ups. ie winches, bumpers, brush guards and "stuff" oh and driver weight lol, plus the figure of 22.5 for a new one on the lot was also not consistent nor was it always the same on both sides. (union workers?) don't know but I measured 5 new units one day and three were 22.5. In 06 I went as high as 24.5 but realized at that height cv's and tie rod angles were really steep. Discussions with other guys I know that make a living working on suspensions with cv's said they thought I should come down, so I did, to 23.5 because that is where my modded tie rods, longer ant-sway links and longer shocks all cleared everything at rest and full droop lock to lock and got rid of the door stop droop in the front.
I post often that I don't bend a tape measure in to the hub rather I use a level and square out inline with the tape coming down from under the fender for a more accurate guesstimation!
Looking forward to hearing if you get it set up right.

 

[Dennis]

Just got back from getting my 4 wheel alignment..Over all nothing was out of specs too much..toe in was affected slightly by me cranking on the Torsion bars..but nothing was way out stupid..

 

[Hunner]

I have found that to be the case on a friends alignment rack and he got the H3 software, but we have played with different settings. I do the toe change in my shop now if I make adjustments while experimenting but I like to use dollies under the front wheels so I can move the tie rods and have the wheels rotate as they do on an alignment rack. That saves a lot of trial and error.

 

[SolidusJ]

Taking on rotating the key and see what happens, wish me luck!!!!

 

[ReconH3]

Good luck!!!


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

 

[Bigunit]

solid, I was JR3T's assistant (in actuality, I handed him his beer and tools while he was under his rig but did observe the entire process ) when he removed and replaced his H3T's alpha T-bars in front of Neo's house in Moab last April to put in some beefier T-bars that he got from Bebe. It really is a simple task. Here are my tips and instructions from the GM service manual for what its worth:

To remove T-bars
1) lift front end under the center (at end of skid plate/shield close to where it the ucp & sskid meet). Then place jacksstands under the level part of the frame towards the front on each side.
2) allowing the front suspension to hang
3) remove the adjuster bolt, spacer and adjuster nut (TIP: the T-Bars are specific to the left and right sides of the vehicle, so you might want to mark them "L" and "R") on the ends that fit into the keys)
4) remove the adjuster arms and T-bar as a unit, moving it rearward to disengage the lower control arm from the front

To install:
1) install the adjustment arms and T-bars in relation where the bars were removed
2) install the adjustment arm to the T-bar and slide the T-bar forward until the T-bar fully engages the lower control arm
3) install the adjuster bolt, spacer and adjuster nut - lower the vehicle, measure the ride height and crank the adjuster bolts back up to about 23.5".

Another Tip: JR3T used an impact wrench when he removed the bolts as it will take you a while and lots of turns if you use a socket wrench. Good luck!

 

[SolidusJ]

solid, I was JR3T's assistant (in actuality, I handed him his beer and tools while he was under his rig but did observe the entire process ) when he removed and replaced his H3T's alpha T-bars in front of Neo's house in Moab last April to put in some beefier T-bars that he got from Bebe. It really is a simple task. Here are my tips and instructions from the GM service manual for what its worth:To remove T-bars1) lift front end under the center (at end of skid plate/shield close to where it the ucp & sskid meet). Then place jacksstands under the level part of the frame towards the front on each side.2) allowing the front suspension to hang3) remove the adjuster bolt, spacer and adjuster nut (TIP: the T-Bars are specific to the left and right sides of the vehicle, so you might want to mark them "L" and "R") on the ends that fit into the keys) 4) remove the adjuster arms and T-bar as a unit, moving it rearward to disengage the lower control arm front the frontTo install:1) install the adjustment arms and T-bars in relation where the bars were removed2) install the adjustment arm to the T-bar and slide the T-bar forward until the T-bar fully engages the lower control arm3) install the adjuster bolt, spacer and adjuster nut - lower the vehicle, measure the ride height and crank the adjuster bolts back up to about 23".Another Tip: JR3T used an impact wrench when he removed the bolts as it will take you a while and lots of turns if you use a socket wrench. Good luck!

So all I need to do is drop the bolt and pull out that trusion bar????

 

[Bigunit]

Yes, pretty much.

 

[SolidusJ]

Yes, pretty much.

REALLY!!!!:whaa: I saw this at there other end of the t-bars, I'm assume just undo the nut and then pull out the the bar.

[/IMG]

 

[Bigunit]

No, that doesn't need to come off to pull the bars out, at least not on mine or JR3T's T.

 

[SolidusJ]

SO with Bigunit's help I was able to pop out the T-bar and key on both sides but I'm not going to lie it didn't do anything at all. At both end of the t-bar are made the same way so I wouldn't be able to just turn the key or the bar to help me rise up my front end. One thing I notice was that the was ALOT of play when I reinstall the key and bar back together. I thought once they are in they wouldn't be able to rotate without using the t-bolt. :roll: I'm so pissed right now you just dont understand, has anyone install the bilstein leveling shocks with out cranking the t-bolts???????

[/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG]

 

[ReconH3]

There was no way to rotate at either end? There are aftermarket keys that do allow you to do it. Forget who makes them.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

 

[cgalpha08]

There was no way to rotate at either end? There are aftermarket keys that do allow you to do it. Forget who makes them.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

Sent from my iPhone

I watched a youtube vid on these today, cant remember the name....just looked it up, the company is suspension maxx, most popular kit is max cam system.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[4speedfunk]

One thing I notice was that the was ALOT of play when I reinstall the key and bar back together. I thought once they are in they wouldn't be able to rotate without using the t-bolt.

You're correct. You should not have much slop in there.

If you start the bolt with the key sitting at 45 degrees or less...you'll have a bunch of slack in the assembly, and you'll be able to run 2"-3" inches of bolt up into it before it gets tight. Then you run out of threads before it gets the front end all the way up. Is this your condition? If so...the keys need rotated one click. The keys need to be sticking up at a very steep angles (around 60 degrees or more) before you put the bolts in. You should barely be able to get the bolts started, and you'll notice that it will immediately get tight within the first 1" of threads. Those bolts are very long for a reason...it takes the entire length of the bolt to get the front end up where it needs to be. Sounds like you might be wasting valuable thread taking up the slack.

I just happen to have my junk torn apart right now, and I can take some pics tomorrow of what I'm talking about.

 

[SolidusJ]

You're correct. I don't think you got it together correctly. If you start off with the key sitting 45 degrees or less...you'll have a bunch of slack in the bolt, and you'll be able to run 2"-3" inches of bolt up into it before it gets tight. Then you run out of threads before it gets the front end all the way up. Is this your condition?

That key needs to be sticking up at a very steep angle (around 60 degrees or more) before you put the bolt in. You should barely be able to get the bolt started. You'll notice that it will immediately get tight, and that means you have it indexed correctly. Those bolts are very long for a reason...it takes the entire length of the bolt to get the front end up where it needs to be.

Which way? Both ends have the same hex position they are not off set. How would I turn them to left up my front end?

 

[SolidusJ]

I see said the blind man taking a piss in the wind, I'll try my damnedest to make it happen.

 

[Hunner]

Well at least you are keeping a sense of humor. You could probably use the Bilsteins but you would have them partially compressed and not be able to take advantage of the longer travel. Remember shocks alone do not raise the vehicle. I have not removed my t-bars but 4speedfunk sounds like he can set you straight on how to set them up.
I'm taking notes.:shifty:

 

[4speedfunk]

Okay. Here's a mock-up on my workbench. I'm done with all this IFS stuff, so your timing is perfect on this question. Obviously, there is no pre-load on the torsion bar in these photos, so this is representative of how this stuff sits while you're working on it.

In the first photo, you can see the key sitting flat. Notice in the background that the A-arm is sitting at an angle that would be very close to how it sits installed with weight on it. My guess is that this is approximately what your situation looks like prior to installing the torsion bolts. If your stuff looks like this BEFORE putting a load on the bars, the keys are not installed right, and you'll run out of threads before the front is raised all the way...
View attachment 3566

Now, in this second photo...notice that the key has been rotated one click. See how it is sitting at a very sharp angle? The bolt should barely be long enough to reach the threads, and if you leave the A-arm at the same angle as shown in the first photo...you won't even be able to install the bolt. So, you need to force the A-arm to full droop so you can get the bolt started into the key. This is also where you may need to use a special tool called a "torsion key clamp", to pull the key down closer to its final position. Notice that the A-arm in the background is sitting at a much steeper angle. The A-arm angle in this photo is the minimum angle you should be installing keys at. Its the only way you'll have enough threads to work with. This is what your initial starting position should look like...
View attachment 3567
More than likely...you'll have to remove the lower shock bolts, and have a buddy (a big fat one) stand on the rotor/knuckle to force the A-arm to full droop. Those A-arms will droop several inches further once you disconnect the shocks, and this will give you the extra rotation on the key to get the bolts started. Which leads me to my next question...You do have longer shocks, right? Sometimes the stock shocks will actually "top-out" and keep your front end from raising all the way up. Before you do anything...unbolt the lower shock bolts, to see if this is the case.

 

[4speedfunk]

One more thing. Here's a link to those "index-able" keys that Recon was talking about. You should not need these to do what you're wanting to but, if all else fails...these allow you to index the keys in smaller steps, than having to rotate one full click on the t-bar...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-FRONT-ADJ...ies&hash=item1c23d6e19e&vxp=mtr#ht_1661wt_999

 

[SolidusJ]

Okay. Here's a mock-up on my workbench. I'm done with all this IFS stuff, so your timing is perfect on this question. Obviously, there is no pre-load on the torsion bar in these photos, so this is representative of how this stuff sits while you're working on it.

In the first photo, you can see the key sitting flat. Notice in the background that the A-arm is sitting at an angle that would be very close to how it sits installed with weight on it. My guess is that this is approximately what your situation looks like prior to installing the torsion bolts. If your stuff looks like this BEFORE putting a load on the bars, the keys are not installed right, and you'll run out of threads before the front is raised all the way...
View attachment 3566

Now, in this second photo...notice that the key has been rotated one click. See how it is sitting at a very sharp angle? The bolt should barely be long enough to reach the threads, and if you leave the A-arm at the same angle as shown in the first photo...you won't even be able to install the bolt. So, you need to force the A-arm to full droop so you can get the bolt started into the key. This is also where you may need to use a special tool called a "torsion key clamp", to pull the key down closer to its final position. Notice that the A-arm in the background is sitting at a much steeper angle. The A-arm angle in this photo is the minimum angle you should be installing keys at. Its the only way you'll have enough threads to work with. This is what your initial starting position should look like...
View attachment 3567
More than likely...you'll have to remove the lower shock bolts, and have a buddy (a big fat one) stand on the rotor/knuckle to force the A-arm to full droop. Those A-arms will droop several inches further once you disconnect the shocks, and this will give you the extra rotation on the key to get the bolts started. Which leads me to my next question...You do have longer shocks, right? Sometimes the stock shocks will actually "top-out" and keep your front end from raising all the way up. Before you do anything...unbolt the lower shock bolts, to see if this is the case.

Thank you for the picture aid and your right your first picture is how I'm looking.

[/IMG] The thing is when the key slides into the bar it rotates a quarter to the left and right. Also this got my eyes open look at the sticker!!!!

DRIVER SIDE

[/IMG]

TC SIDE

[/IMG]

This can't be right the right bar is on the left and the left bar is on the right. OR is this how it should look????:no: