Desert builds....?

[Gunick]

So, with the H3 proving to be a solid platform for desert racing, why aren't there more builds of this type? Seems like everyone goes for crawling style builds? I understand that alpha packages are awesome for that particular style of off road but with a lot of drivers having so much success I figured I'd see more talk about it, especially long travel suspension. I'm guessing most would have to be custom builds due to lack of third party support. So what's everyone's thoughts and opinions? Am I the Lone Ranger on the forum that will be going about a more desert style build? Share some insight I may be missing or talk some trash on the idea haha let me hear some thoughts!

 

[Hunner]

Money?

 

[06 H3]

Yea it pisses me off every aftermarket long travel ifs company does stuff for Toyota and fords and even Colorados but not us.

Rod Hall raced and did well in mainly stock form. Stock steering, a arms, diffs, etc. just modified the shocks and rear springs

 

[ABNTROOP]

I like eating dessert in my H3.......:shifty:

 

[amrg]

Are u sure about that? Coz once i hit a desert trail at 40 mph i can feel my truck being destroyed, 30 mph should b the safe zone. Aired down it wld b higher but i cant imagine just changing shocks upfront to make it a race truck!

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[Hunner]

Just do it! but you need to eliminate the speed limiter or you hit about 95 and float.

 

[Gunick]

Rod hall did amazing in the stock class, literally only had the ability to change shocks... He even said that it's amazing how much abuse the H3 can take and how well it does with simple shock upgrades. I know the fox shocks are good and the bilstein 5160's but as far as real long travel we don't have much to work with, I know in stock form I do washboard desert roads at around 50mph and it does pretty good. I'm sure with $$$ king or fox would make a one off... But I think it could be worth it! I love running in the desert...mostly because I'm in Las Vegas haha. I know weight is always an issue but what other weak points are there with stock front suspension? I'm gonna really look into making a solid rig for desert...

 

[06 H3]

Gunick is right amrg. Trust me the truck may feel like its falling apart but I doubt that it is. It usually does in the rocks lol.

Rod Hall made few modifications because he was in a stock class.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/0606or-2006-hummer-h3-race-truck/photo-gallery/

View those pics. I know he was running deaver leafs out back and for jumping they kick ass! I ran them and Jeff, the designer of deaver leaf springs basically made the same design for me as he did for Rod Hall years back. For high speed they did great, I jumped it a few times and it felt like I was landing on a pillow. With those and some good shocks that is about it. I love all the mods he did. The rollcage which was necessary was very clean! Id love to replicate it. I also liked the seat bracket modifications and just about everything lol

 

[Gunick]

Gunick is right amrg. Trust me the truck may feel like its falling apart but I doubt that it is. It usually does in the rocks lol.

Rod Hall made few modifications because he was in a stock class.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/0606or-2006-hummer-h3-race-truck/photo-gallery/

View those pics. I know he was running deaver leafs out back and for jumping they kick ass! I ran them and Jeff, the designer of deaver leaf springs basically made the same design for me as he did for Rod Hall years back. For high speed they did great, I jumped it a few times and it felt like I was landing on a pillow. With those and some good shocks that is about it. I love all the mods he did. The rollcage which was necessary was very clean! Id love to replicate it. I also liked the seat bracket modifications and just about everything lol

this is the same article that made me want an H3... I plan on doing most of the same suspension mods. I still used interior haha but a roll cage would be amazing!

 

[06 H3]

If I could put all my interior back in I'd start a roll cage like that as soon as I had the funds.

 

[4speedfunk]

Don't be so quick to jump on the H3's racing success. I get the feeling Rod Hall could have achieved the same results in any vehicle. I mean...if the H3 was such a bad-ass racing rig, then we would see them in all sorts of events and probably with some checkered flags and positive press. But we don't. That leads me to believe that Hall's success was strictly a sponsership thang. He was winning before he teamed up with Hummer...then he won a few races for Hummer...and now he's moved-on and winning for somebody else.

Its called "Peyton Manning Syndrome". Some guys just "got it" no matter what.

 

[MTUH3]

You can probably talk to Fox and get some by-pass shocks to help control the energy. Rod Hall Racing used Light Racing Jounce Shocks http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-25870/overview/make/hummer (gas bump stops) and they fit on the stock truck. Price is a little steep for me to go that route. Fox makes a jounce shocks also, like what Bebe has on her monster, but it will not fit with a stock set up, the Jounce shock is too long. It should however fit a Ranch lift, and if / when I get my hands on a cheap kit... I will install the Fox Jounce on my truck, I already have all the Fox parts at home.

Contact ICON Vehicle Dynamics. I have talked to their Gurus at a number of events, and they are super cool guys. IMO they would be the most willing to explore the H3 market, but we just need more of us to call and contact them. I have spoke to them a lot about the H3, and I have got a lot of good feedback. Between the jounce shocks, and upgrading the front shocks... the torsion spring should be able to keep up with the truck, no need to try and develop a coil over set up. There have been a number of trucks in the desert with torsion bar set ups, both front and rear.

Keeping the rear suspension as a spring under may help with droop, but to take advantage of the full travel of the H3, a lower spring rate pack and upper shock mount move would be needed. a 3.0 sized shock would be great and jounce shock in the back would help control things too. The 3.0s might be hard to package up front though.

 

[backcountryislife]

I also wonder what that rig of his weighed in at compared to stock form. I know they added the roll cage, but EVERYTHING else is gone. Anyone that has dealt with racing of any form knows that weight is a HUGE factor in suspension performance.

 

[MTUH3]

lower weight will help, but with the suspension components available today, most of it can be very well managed.

Stewart Racing, RPG Offroad, and other companies built a kick ass prerunner with full interior, stereo, nav, roll cage, ect. They did cage and link the rear end, but it was 4 wheel drive and amazing. Too bad it burned to the ground after what appears to be a botched supercharger install.

Fox is soon to come out with some bad ass shocks. Internal bypass, position sensitive with a combination to adjust dampening based on shock speed with a dial. A combo like that and you can pretty much control the energy in any vehicle

 

[06 H3]

Don't be so quick to jump on the H3's racing success. I get the feeling Rod Hall could have achieved the same results in any vehicle. I mean...if the H3 was such a bad-ass racing rig, then we would see them in all sorts of events and probably with some checkered flags and positive press. But we don't. That leads me to believe that Hall's success was strictly a sponsership thang. He was winning before he teamed up with Hummer...then he won a few races for Hummer...and now he's moved-on and winning for somebody else.

Its called "Peyton Manning Syndrome". Some guys just "got it" no matter what.

Hahahaha your such a damn pessimist! Or a realist....not sure lol seriously though the FJ and the H3 are similar when it comes to alot of things like visibility, weight, height, the main difference for a racer is the platform of coilovers and 4link rear vs torsions and leaf springs.

Lets not forget the morocco girls team that raced the H3 too. 21st in 09 out of 110 teams 12th in 2010 and I think 2nd in 2011.

I know people who have talked to rod hall and he has nothing but good things to say about the H3.

Not sure what to think about it against FJs...

 

[Gunick]

This setup would be nice for front, as mtuh3 was saying. It's the rear I'm concerned with, I'm sure with a cage we could fit a 3.0 back there with some modifying here and there :huh: for a weekend warrior a 3.0 shock is way out of the picture though, or is it??

 

[bebe]

Don't be so quick to jump on the H3's racing success. I get the feeling Rod Hall could have achieved the same results in any vehicle. I mean...if the H3 was such a bad-ass racing rig, then we would see them in all sorts of events and probably with some checkered flags and positive press. But we don't. That leads me to believe that Hall's success was strictly a sponsorship thang. He was winning before he teamed up with Hummer...then he won a few races for Hummer...and now he's moved-on and winning for somebody else.

Its called "Peyton Manning Syndrome". Some guys just "got it" no matter what.

I can agree with Rod's talent...he's amazing. But in my conversations with him, he truly believes in the Hummer brand and design, so much so that they continue to race the 2 cars he has despite no longer being supported by the brand. Chad still races the H3 Alpha, Josh's daughter now races grandpa's I-5.

Emily raced the Gazelles, but remember it's not a race, it's an orienteering challenge.So speed is not involved at all, it's going from point to point in the shortest distance possible, which means driver talent and vehicle capability and durability are the most important aspects. Any way - now she and Rod run trainings for future Gazelles...2 times a year in the desert. The California Desert.

I've driven a lot of cars in many different configurations, and I've yet to be impressed by the capability and comfort of anything other than the Hummer brand lineup. The ONLY other vehicle/toy that gives me the giggles now is my race rzr.

 

[twinmill28]

I've been staring at H2 front ends alot lately and just posted up in the 2 section about a really cool post I'd found about the challenges of lifting the H2's IFS for reliability and bigger tires.
Why are H3 owners still subject to these damn factory upper control arms?
Cognito offers replacement H2 UCA's that change the ball joint angle and bump stop mount to allow the torsion bars to be cranked or changed out to level the truck (raise the front end 2 or 3") without the negative effects that stock UCA provides.
Do you folks know if anybody has been tried working on a similar solution for the 3? It seems really simple, but I don't know if the 3 front end is just different from the 2 (seems the same?) and similiar tube UCA's would be ineffective?

 

[bebe]

The front end is different. The H2 has more room. A Lot more room. The H3 also has less need for improvements, and/or, more folks just keep them stock. If for no other reason than GM put a little more thought into the design and because it just plain weighs less.

Sam at Samco Fab said in my thread on Race dezert that you can get 8" of front travel out of a stock H3...he's done it.

 

[MTUH3]

Sam at Samco Fab said in my thread on Race dezert that you can get 8" of front travel out of a stock H3...he's done it.

I believe it. I noticed there is a lot more travel available in the rear too, and sourcing / sizing the right leaf pack will go a long way. No need to link or cage the rear end IMO. I think two options would work well for travel once the right springs were identified.

Longer travel by-pass shocks, which would require new upper hoops and may be cutting into the floor of the body, and or lowering the lower shock mount.
Build a new jounce imacpt pad toward the inside of the frame, mount a jounce shock (gas bump stop) lower to actually impact and be more in the operating zone of the suspension. Better solution may be to go to a wider axle and mount the jounce shock on the outside of the frame and tie a cross brace in.



You could also look at cantilevering the rear, it will give more suspension travel without a crazy long travel shock, but the gas tank will get in the way of that idea.

 

[06 H3]

the stock springs in spring over form have worked great for me, its just the lack of shock that limits me. I need to adjust the upper mount.

You have a spring over too Carl, lmk what fox's you go with I will go the same route, the goal for me is 12in of travel.

 

[06 H3]

http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?6519-More-DIY-IFS-setups

read the 2 links in the first post...great stuff for going fast.

 

[MTUH3]

You have a spring over too Carl, lmk what fox's you go with I will go the same route, the goal for me is 12in of travel.

I will, might be a while until I get my pick-up back from Pittsburgh though. I need to keep the H3 on the road until I get the truck back

 

[MTUH3]

I would not be afraid of keeping the TB set up for high speed. The more suspension guys I talk to, the more they say the torsion design is much better than most get credit for. What would be the cats ass is to convince Icon to make one of these for the H3.



They have adjustable Hiems to adjust the camber as you change the ride height. Also cutting down the upper hard stop on the frame and going to a strap will help. The uniball and clearancing some of the knuckle to U/LCA will help get travel too. Then, IMO, it is down to dialing in the shocks and using jounce shocks.

We should start a campaign on the Icon facebook page until we get what we want

 

[06 H3]

I agree 100% I saw your facebook post today but we have to get people to commit. If they will go through the design process and everyone backs out then we look like dumbasses.

4speed a part of lack of aftermarket long travel is money obviously, with only 180k H3(T)s made compared to the FJs with over 200,000 and counting they have more room for profit and of those numbers I am sure a larger percentage of FJs are wheeled. In my town I see all mall crawlers I am of 5 H3s I see that wheel. I see hundreds of mall crawlers. I see way more modded wheeling FJs then H3s. Companies go for profit...FJs would bring in more.