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Another headers thread

High Five H2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,627
Location
West Texas
there's that company, OTTP and another one called clear image that both make long tube headers. they don't say 2wd only on clear image's website, but who knows if it works for 4WD or not. i've also read that OTTP has a terrible reputation. some forum warned against them.

do they work on an H3? who knows. i may pick up a set this summer and see.
 

amrg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,317
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Qatar
In the link they claim it was designed for a 4x4. But how wld that compare on an H3?
I wld really like to have more power/grunt without forking out 6k on a blower, and I havent read anywhere about anyone doing a cam swap either...
 

Airborne

Just a regular dude
Messages
294
Location
Utah
Absolutely do not buy from OTTP.

There is a reason that Josh from OTTP has been banned from all forums for the 355 and colorado folks. Aside from canada forums. I have a review coming of the header I received from them. Lets just say after 5 weeks late and several attempts to get a hold of them (voicemails, emails and calls at different hours to hopefully get a hold of them) I wasn't happy with their customer service. After I did get the header the work was so poor I had to spend another hour cleaning it up. On top of that they didn't even send all the items I had ordered with the header in the first place. So for 6.5 weeks to build a horrible product then to not send all the items ordered I thought I might be in line to give their product and customer service a bad review. I attempted to place the bad review on their website and they wouldn't post it. It finally did prompt a call back from them to see why I wasn't happy. I explained why I wasn't happy and he said to send him pictures of what I was talking about to see if it was normal. Any way long story short... OTTP is a two man operation. He knew exactly what his product looked like when it left the shop. Here are a few of the pics of their work judge for yourself.

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I'm trying to not thread jack as much as possible and will cite my review thread when I post it, but I just want to help prevent people from throwing money away at OTTP....
 

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ReconH3

Guardian Angel
Messages
2,288
Location
Raleigh, NC
It's always good to hear other people's horror stories. It saves other people going through the same hassles. Thanks for the heads up.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"
 

alrock

El Diablo
Staff member
Messages
10,677
Location
Scottsdale
Wow, thanks for posting that up. Sorry about the troubles

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 

High Five H2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,627
Location
West Texas
from what i hear, that's pretty normal for OTTP. buyer beware.

anyways, did it fit??? if it fits, then maybe the clear image one will too!!
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
Absolutely do not buy from OTTP.

There is a reason that Josh from OTTP has been banned from all forums for the 355 and colorado folks. Aside from canada forums. I have a review coming of the header I received from them. Lets just say after 5 weeks late and several attempts to get a hold of them (voicemails, emails and calls at different hours to hopefully get a hold of them) I wasn't happy with their customer service. After I did get the header the work was so poor I had to spend another hour cleaning it up. On top of that they didn't even send all the items I had ordered with the header in the first place. So for 6.5 weeks to build a horrible product then to not send all the items ordered I thought I might be in line to give their product and customer service a bad review. I attempted to place the bad review on their website and they wouldn't post it. It finally did prompt a call back from them to see why I wasn't happy. I explained why I wasn't happy and he said to send him pictures of what I was talking about to see if it was normal. Any way long story short... OTTP is a two man operation. He knew exactly what his product looked like when it left the shop. Here are a few of the pics of their work judge for yourself.

attachment.php

attachment.php

I'm trying to not thread jack as much as possible and will cite my review thread when I post it, but I just want to help prevent people from throwing money away at OTTP....

help me out here - what is wrong with those flanges? they look flat and crack free... you're concerned with blending?
 

Airborne

Just a regular dude
Messages
294
Location
Utah
help me out here - what is wrong with those flanges? they look flat and crack free... you're concerned with blending?

Mostly flat and yes crack free. I would hope they would be. They are brand new.
I was concerned with the flange not being connected with enough of a bead to have the port be flush with the rest of the flange. They didn’t machine the flange flat. It was done with a belt sander. That being said they have skills with a belt sander. However where the flange and the ports meet there are several inconstancies in lack of material ie the top picture that gouge is at least 25-50 thousands deep. There are those "valleys" in the flange on nearly every port-flange connection. That is not good on a gasket as of course, there are high heat gasses moving rapidly that will make their way in those holes which will only weaken the gasket and cause premature failure. Weakness and inconsistencies aren't what I was looking for in an aftermarket part. As most everyone knows the header/manifold gets a lot of abuse as it directs a lot of heat and pressure to where it needs to go.

This being an aftermarket "performance" part. The ports looked like someone made a very feeble attempt to debur them with the side of a drill bit. The chatter marks are absolutely horrible. Even light pressure with your finger and you would easily cut yourself. To note they actually made the steel from the port extend up into the plane of the flange. Again which is supposed to be perfectly flat. Digressing... this being a performance part, I would like to see the ports at least semi uniform. Without jutted steel sticking directly into the flow of exhaust. Uniform somewhat smooth ports would be ideal. The ports on the cast manifold looked infinitely better. I wanted the part for performance increase, as in better exhaust flow, the ports as they were from their shop were any but performance oriented.

I can go on but I will save the rest for the review. Like I said I didn't want to thread jack, just hopefully keep people from throwing their money away. I can't tell everyone how people spend their money though I was just extending my personal experience with that company. I wasn't happy at all with it and the complete lack of give a sh!t attitude when I tried to tell them why it wasn't ok really sealed the deal. When I finally spoke with them I was very professional and cordial. I might have been able to get away with a little bit of a sour attitude after the 4 week delay beyond what I was quoted and not receiving all the products. The adage of you attract more bees with honey than vinegar comes to mind when I am working with other businesses. I let them know I wasn't happy. I was nice about it. He said I don't believe you send me a picture. Very very poor business practices.
Either way again just sharing my experience with them. If anyone else here wants to chance their money with them hoping for a better product my feelings will not be hurt at all.

:rant:
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
Mostly flat and yes crack free. I would hope they would be. They are brand new.
I was concerned with the flange not being connected with enough of a bead to have the port be flush with the rest of the flange. They didn’t machine the flange flat. It was done with a belt sander. That being said they have skills with a belt sander. However where the flange and the ports meet there are several inconstancies in lack of material ie the top picture that gouge is at least 25-50 thousands deep. There are those "valleys" in the flange on nearly every port-flange connection. That is not good on a gasket as of course, there are high heat gasses moving rapidly that will make their way in those holes which will only weaken the gasket and cause premature failure. Weakness and inconsistencies aren't what I was looking for in an aftermarket part. As most everyone knows the header/manifold gets a lot of abuse as it directs a lot of heat and pressure to where it needs to go.

This being an aftermarket "performance" part. The ports looked like someone made a very feeble attempt to debur them with the side of a drill bit. The chatter marks are absolutely horrible. Even light pressure with your finger and you would easily cut yourself. To note they actually made the steel from the port extend up into the plane of the flange. Again which is supposed to be perfectly flat. Digressing... this being a performance part, I would like to see the ports at least semi uniform. Without jutted steel sticking directly into the flow of exhaust. Uniform somewhat smooth ports would be ideal. The ports on the cast manifold looked infinitely better. I wanted the part for performance increase, as in better exhaust flow, the ports as they were from their shop were any but performance oriented.

I can go on but I will save the rest for the review. Like I said I didn't want to thread jack, just hopefully keep people from throwing their money away. I can't tell everyone how people spend their money though I was just extending my personal experience with that company. I wasn't happy at all with it and the complete lack of give a sh!t attitude when I tried to tell them why it wasn't ok really sealed the deal. When I finally spoke with them I was very professional and cordial. I might have been able to get away with a little bit of a sour attitude after the 4 week delay beyond what I was quoted and not receiving all the products. The adage of you attract more bees with honey than vinegar comes to mind when I am working with other businesses. I let them know I wasn't happy. I was nice about it. He said I don't believe you send me a picture. Very very poor business practices.
Either way again just sharing my experience with them. If anyone else here wants to chance their money with them hoping for a better product my feelings will not be hurt at all.

:rant:

I build headers, and make pretty good side-job money doing so... in the interest of saving this thread, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

With that said, let's talk about headers and what to look for in a quality header.
You don't want smooth flanges because the gasket won't seal (ask anyone with chromed headers about this issue).
As long as the header port is larger than the exhaust port, you won't have flow impediment.
Deburring, yep, I agree with you there - however, keep in mind, all headers will eventually crack at the weld; so you want as much material as you can possibly leave there - so I don't think they should have touched it. after all, when you build the headers, as long as you can read a tape measure, it's pretty easy to leave a 1/16" step to allow movement in the manufacturing process. As for cutting your finger? hopefully, once you install the headers, you'll never touch it again (presuming you use proper gaskets like Percy's). Having a surface of .030 milling is correct, actually, because you do not want the header flange to move on the head. Because the bolts for the manifold aren't always a tight tolerance, there will always be so movement allowed with mechanical fasteners - which is why, once you're done with building the headers, you take .005-.010 off to make the flange flat around the tube and leave a rough surface to allow the flange to mechanically attach to the head via the abrasion.

Headers don't make power by smoothing flow - they make power by scavenging. The longer the tube, the better the scavenging. Exhaust manifolds fall before headers because with a longer tube, you even the pulses and create a vacuum when the exhaust valve closes. That vacuum then draws the mixture out again when the exhaust valve opens. Level of vacuum is directly correlated to length of tube - the longer the tube the greater vacuum because of the weight of the air in the tube). Tube sizing is what then becomes important (which is why a larger tube isn't necessarily better).

You did make me laugh at the 5.5 or whatever weeks to complete. When you drop your car off at my shop, I tell you it will be at least 8 weeks to have custom headers done... most times I get it done in that amount of time.

So now that we've dispensed of that - how did the header fit? (I presume it's a 5 cylinder because V8 ports are round, as are the headers)... did you have to do any clearancing?
 
Last edited:

Airborne

Just a regular dude
Messages
294
Location
Utah
I build headers, and make pretty good side-job money doing so... in the interest of saving this thread, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

With that said, let's talk about headers and what to look for in a quality header.
You don't want smooth flanges because the gasket won't seal (ask anyone with chromed headers about this issue).
As long as the header port is larger than the exhaust port, you won't have flow impediment.
Deburring, yep, I agree with you there - however, keep in mind, all headers will eventually crack at the weld; so you want as much material as you can possibly leave there - so I don't think they should have touched it. after all, when you build the headers, as long as you can read a tape measure, it's pretty easy to leave a 1/16" step to allow movement in the manufacturing process. As for cutting your finger? hopefully, once you install the headers, you'll never touch it again (presuming you use proper gaskets like Percy's). Having a surface of .030 milling is correct, actually, because you do not want the header flange to move on the head. Because the bolts for the manifold aren't always a tight tolerance, there will always be so movement allowed with mechanical fasteners - which is why, once you're done with building the headers, you take .005-.010 off to make the flange flat around the tube and leave a rough surface to allow the flange to mechanically attach to the head via the abrasion.

Headers don't make power by smoothing flow - they make power by scavenging. The longer the tube, the better the scavenging. Exhaust manifolds fall before headers because with a longer tube, you even the pulses and create a vacuum when the exhaust valve closes. That vacuum then draws the mixture out again when the exhaust valve opens. Level of vacuum is directly correlated to length of tube - the longer the tube the greater vacuum because of the weight of the air in the tube). Tube sizing is what then becomes important (which is why a larger tube isn't necessarily better).

You did make me laugh at the 5.5 or whatever weeks to complete. When you drop your car off at my shop, I tell you it will be at least 8 weeks to have custom headers done... most times I get it done in that amount of time.

So now that we've dispensed of that - how did the header fit? (I presume it's a 5 cylinder because V8 ports are round, as are the headers)... did you have to do any clearancing?

Thank you for your reply. I'm not sure if you read what I posted or might have skewed what I wrote. That is probably my my fault for not being clear. Based on your original post this was my reply:

"The cut on the finger didn't happen. I said you would cut yourself if you applied pressure because the ports were that rough. That was merely for reference so people at home could get an idea of their roughness.

I didn't want smooth flanges flat I wanted flat flanges. Or else I would have polished them. ie uniform or not have valleys with missing material to make them weaker or make weak spots for the gasket to fail.

As far as the smoothing flow and scavenging. I said smooth and uniform ports. Nothing about smoothing flow. I should have added to the smooth and uniform ports comment: to aid in scavenging. You are the expert here, correct me if I am wrong; scavenging is the increased airflow from the vacuum like you said, so I am going to venture ports that are not at least somewhat uniformed to each other and themselves having very rough edges would not aid in scavenging.

The quoted time to build the header was from them not me being unhappy about it taking 5 weeks. I guess that was me being naive. They told me on the phone they would have it built in a week. Their website shows they have x amount of units in stock already built. So they are claiming it's not a "custom" header but one they carry in stock or made to order/finish based on demand. The caveat to that is on their site it says it may take 2-3 weeks to build. That is understandable and I would have been happy with that. They were even still further than that by 3 weeks. But 5.5 weeks beyond what they told me on my initial phone call. Either way, well beyond their projected date to have the part finished and at least on it's way. If that made you laugh and your lead time is longer that is fine and understandable but they quoted me that their lead time was much shorter. Obviously you are doing better work with a higher demand with an increased lead time. Had they told me it would be 6 weeks I would have happily waited that long.

I guess I may be way of base here. Based on your opinion Superbuick is that normal for a performance header port to look like that?

The header is for the little 5. It fit fine and I didn't have to do any clearancing for mine."

Since you edited your response that may not make sense. Either way I again was trying to help other people possibly avoid buying a poor product with people with poor customer service with a known reputation for both. Again I hoped my post helped with that. I will bow out now.

 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
5.5 weeks when they said one is just dumb on their part

ports depend on the motor.... I don't have the other side of this header, but you can see it's round (it's for an LS)


here's ports for a Studebaker I've done headers and turbo manifolds for


here's header flanges for a 3.6vvt


some 455 header/flanges


point is they all look different but the header should match and be a bit larger than the port.
 

Airborne

Just a regular dude
Messages
294
Location
Utah
holy hell. That first pic for the LS... that header looks gorgeous. Want to make me one for the I5? I will gladly wait 8 weeks. :)
A huge note that I see right off... You can see you put a bead all the way around the port/flange connections. ottp only runs one on the top and bottom of the the flange/port union. Leaving the vertical edges just hanging there with no welds at all.
Folks if you want to see a quality header these pics are it!
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
holy hell. That first pic for the LS... that header looks gorgeous. Want to make me one for the I5? I will gladly wait 8 weeks. :)
A huge note that I see right off... You can see you put a bead all the way around the port/flange connections. ottp only runs one on the top and bottom of the the flange/port union. Leaving the vertical edges just hanging there with no welds at all.
Folks if you want to see a quality header these pics are it!

I don't do polish, that first picture is a OBX header that eventually will be modified for my H3 - with that said, I'm not impressed with the OBX. TIG welds can look pretty or be strong, the welds on those tubes are sure pretty.

without polish, headers start at $1,500 and the most I've charged is 10k for a twin turbo 68 fastback Mustang (427 side-oiler) ... and I didn't polish the side-oiler headers either :)

... here's where you say "but I can buy Doug's headers for $650" lololol and I respond "great" - funny part about doing headers/manifolds is there is no shortage of people willing to pay to have someone else do them - to me, it's hobby time when I do it and making tubes look like spaghetti yet have the same, relative length is a lot of fun (but then, again, I like Hummers, so I'm already a bit weird). With that said, I end up doing stuff like that Mustang - where no one builds headers for the application... if you can buy off the shelf, do it - that's what I do as well.
 

Mr_Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
667
Location
Yucaipa & Santa Maria
I have early model Borla headers on my '89 K1500 that I've been running for over twenty years and I'm running them on the fourth engine that's been in this truck and the second engine these headers have been installed on. Any commercially available header you buy has a "rough" looking quality to them; my Borlas included. The later models may have been cleaned up cosmetically more than my early ones. I think that's the way it is with some of these aftermarket parts. I had a set of early Doug Thorley headers I was going to install on my '69 Firebird but I sold them when my plans changed for the car. I had Blackjack headers on my first Chevy pickup. I think I would install these OTTP headers on my 3.7L IF I wasn't in Calif.
 
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