Radiator trouble

[nj3talpha]

I am on my 2nd CFS radiator which started leaking. My mechanic claims its the radiator. Does anyone know if any issues could be causing this, I've done some searching on this forum and one idea I came across was a blown head gasket. Thanks

 

[4speedfunk]

A blown head gasket will not cause a radiator to leak. All radiators (plastic, brass, alum, or whatever) are considerably more fragile than the pieces that they bolt to. For this reason many radiators have rubber mounts or methods that hold the radiator captive in place, rather than being bolted directly to the vehicle. Any minor vibrations or rubbing of the radiator against the body of the truck, will immediately cause a hole. Check things like the shroud, upper mounts, lower mounts, side mounts, and make sure nothing is rubbing or touching the radiator. Even plastic will rub a hole thru aluminum. Perhaps you are missing some rubber mounting bushings? A quick look to see where its leaking from can certainly clarify the issue.

Regardless...aluminum radiators in particular, are extremely patch friendly and any competent welder or radiator shop should be able to fix it. That's the huge advantage they have over plastic.

 

[nj3talpha]

bump....... on my 3rd CSF radiator which is now leaking. Can anyone recommend a radiator to buy?

 

[Ghostbuster]

bump....... on my 3rd CSF radiator which is now leaking. Can anyone recommend a radiator to buy?

why? why are you on your 3rd one? It makes no sense. You should have listened to 4Speed.

You need to figure out what the actual problem is.

Get an OEM radiator. it is cheaper and mine has held up for 70k miles so far with no issues.

 

[alrock]

The OEM ones have actually become reasonably priced. Aftermarket is cheaper, but OEM is not overpriced. Or look into all aluminum. One guess: CSF might've had a bad batch and you've received three from the same batch. Are they all leaking at the same spot - where are the leaks occurring?

 

[alrock]

I'll add that I probably have the (second) crappiest aftermarket radiator out there. It came in dented and the neck was not properly sized, meaning the radiator cap cannot seal it without the addition of some silicone tape on the cap to increase the diameter of the cap. That said, it's about 5 years old and with about 69,000 miles on it and no leaks.

 

[K0PIR]

I just put a Silla in, $70 shipped to my door. I think it was the original I took out and it lasted 170,000+ miles. It was leaking from the bottom.

My engine seems to be running cooler. I'll be able to tell better in the summer.

 

[08H3]

I had 160K on my original before it had a leak. I'd say that's good for anything-- OEM or aftermarket-- so I don't see any reason to search for something other than GM. I don't think the price is out of line either, especially on Amazon.

 

[justin94tt]

Interestingly enough, I also am on the second CFS aluminum one in 3 months and it is now also leaking. It's more than likely a bad batch that came out. I email the company I ordered from to see if I can get refund and I will be going back to the AC delco brand.

 

[K0PIR]

I had 160K on my original before it had a leak. I'd say that's good for anything-- OEM or aftermarket-- so I don't see any reason to search for something other than GM. I don't think the price is out of line either, especially on Amazon.

Yeah if a guy looks around, he can find a GM replacement for a fair price. I kinda wish I went that route now. Hopefully the Silla lasts. I don't see getting rid of my H3 for many many more miles.

 

[Snakecharmer]

The negative reports on the CFS radiator are very disconcerting. I just replaced my leaking OEM a month ago with a CFS (mainly because it looked pretty and I got a sticker). My CFS is not leaking, but now I am worried I made an expensive mistake. Has anyone contacted CFS directly to discuss this issue?

 

[justin94tt]

I called CFS directly the fisrt time and they were nice but ultimately said I had to go through the distributor where I purchased the radiator for a warranty replacement. I ended up having a new radiator drop shipped the next day. So they were outstanding in that aspect. It just unfortunate they had a bad batch of radiators produced from what it looks.

 

[Vdawg1115]

I have had mine for a little over a year now and it has held up to some abuse. Granted I have only put around 10,000 miles on it.

 

[Happy Hummer]

This seems plausible, albeit I'm wondering the likely hood of three failures in a row. Those seem like steep odds. I've seen one, two of same part but three seems excessive. Have you pressure tested your cooling system? Have you checked for faulty water pump, t-stat or collapsed hose? I just keep thinking something else is hinky. Maybe back pressure from failing head gasket or ????? Not sure....

 

[amrg]

Our H3 cooling system is not a closed pressurized system. Its designed to release cooling system pressure in 2 ways:

1. The overflow tank connected to the filler neck of the radiator. As hot water expands, it will exit the radiator from there into the overflow tank, when it cools suction will return the coolant to the radiator

2. The radiator cap is pressure sensitive. After a certain build up in radiator pressure its designed to release pressurized coolant out. You will notice a coolant smell when it happens (if you use GMs red coolant at least)

The radiator was leaking twice. Did you make sure its poor worksmanship of the radiator thats causing it to fail? Because if its not then you will keep repeating this again and again.
A head gasket problem should show some oil in the coolant. Or a sludge material (oil mixing with the coolant). A severe one will get you a distinguishable white smoke I believe in the exhaust, esp after idling for a bit.

 

[Vdawg1115]

Try a different shop and see if the same happens

 

[justin94tt]

Radiator 1 leak (fluid was gathering at the bottom of fins)

Radiator 2 leak (appears leak is at the weld point)

 

[rascole]

Let us know and post pictures of the failed radiator at the leak. It needs to be pulled an pressure tested to find the leak. Too difficult to determine while it is installed and cold.

 

[Ravi_CSF]

Hi everyone,

My name is Ravi, and I'm the owner of CSF - I was alerted to this posting by a dealer of mine, and I thought best to join the forum, and offer some more information on this product, and possible warranty claims + clear up some information which I've read that is not correct in regards to cooling systems of vehicles. Also, I'll be active to answer any questions that anyone has as well.

1) In the 1st couple of post, someone claims that a blown head gasket will not cause the radiator to fail - this is 100% incorrect.
- A defective radiator, can most certainly be the cause of a blown/leaking head gasket. The radiator is made of the thinnest material in the entire cooling system. This radiator uses upgraded / thicker tubes than our normal OEM replacement units, and it's only .3mm thick!! When a head gasket blows or is leaking, it causes the pressure to spike in the cooling system to 2x-4x the normal operating pressure. The CSF radiator is tested to 2x the normal operating pressure, and the all-aluminum 100% TIG welded design will help the radiator not blow, but if the system continues to operate, it will eventually fail.

1A) CSF is a true manufacturer of cooling systems. We make every single part of our unit in house. The tubes & fin, then assemble our own cores, and weld the tanks together, then leak test, then package. Every single unit is tested.


2) Everyone knows that the OEM design of the radiator in the Hummer H3 is a faulty one. The aluminum design of the CSF unit is a great alternative to the weak plastic OEM replacement style radiators. The top mounting point of the OEM unit is molded in plastic on the top plastic end tank, this is the most common part of radiator tank cracking / leaking for this unit - The CSF design in all-aluminum with the billet mounting pin, has solved this problem.

2A) CSF sells ~200 OEM replacement plastic/aluminum units p/ month of this model - There is a huge failure rate with the OEM unit, and we see this by our sales history every month. CSF defect rate is less than 2%.. For high performance, we're selling about 20 pieces p/ month, with a defect rate similar at around ~2-3%


3) This is one of CSF’s top 3 selling units - With over 200 sold p/ year - Undoubtedly, the CSF unit also has had failures because of the same issues that plague the OEM design, head gasket issues, and other failures caused by the mounting structure, vibration and other design flaws of the OEM radiator installation.

- With that being said, forum members typically write their experience if there is a problem with the unit, not if they’ve had a good experience with the radiator. CSF has had a few issues with this model, but as you can see from the forum postings, a lot of the bad apples are happening on the same vehicle, where there is most likely another problem causing the radiator to fail… Remember a radiator is a passive unit. There are no moving parts. Usually when it fails, it is caused by something else. Every CSF unit is leak tested at the factory to a pressure of 2x the operations pressure. Also, every design is put on our vibration testing bench during development to make sure there are no problems with our design, and that is can take the beating of HD/off-road use.

We pride ourself in backing up all warranty claims. As others have posted - we usually get warranties approved and sent out within 48 hours. However, when we start to see 2 or 3 failures on the same vehicle, we know that we're just throwing away money and good units on the same problem just to keep the customer happy. Then they may come on the forum and say it's the problem of the manufacturer.. This isn't necessarily the case, and the entire cooling system needs to be checked and addressed.. I haven't even discussed electrolysis which is a huge problem in regards to why radiators fail.
Most shops are lazy, and will fault the radiator, instead of doing a thorough check like they're supposed to be doing.

This is all just my .02 - we stand behind our product, and I hope that me jumping on here to address any concerns, misinformation, and shed light on the matter, will give other users the confidence to try CSF - We continue to sell these units at a great rate, with very few warranty claims annually..

 

[RamRod]

Hi everyone,

My name is Ravi, and I'm the owner of CSF - I was alerted to this posting by a dealer of mine, and I thought best to join the forum, and offer some more information on this product, and possible warranty claims + clear up some information which I've read that is not correct in regards to cooling systems of vehicles. Also, I'll be active to answer any questions that anyone has as well.

1) In the 1st couple of post, someone claims that a blown head gasket will not cause the radiator to fail - this is 100% incorrect.
- A defective radiator, can most certainly be the cause of a blown/leaking head gasket. The radiator is made of the thinnest material in the entire cooling system. This radiator uses upgraded / thicker tubes than our normal OEM replacement units, and it's only .3mm thick!! When a head gasket blows or is leaking, it causes the pressure to spike in the cooling system to 2x-4x the normal operating pressure. The CSF radiator is tested to 2x the normal operating pressure, and the all-aluminum 100% TIG welded design will help the radiator not blow, but if the system continues to operate, it will eventually fail.

1A) CSF is a true manufacturer of cooling systems. We make every single part of our unit in house. The tubes & fin, then assemble our own cores, and weld the tanks together, then leak test, then package. Every single unit is tested.


2) Everyone knows that the OEM design of the radiator in the Hummer H3 is a faulty one. The aluminum design of the CSF unit is a great alternative to the weak plastic OEM replacement style radiators. The top mounting point of the OEM unit is molded in plastic on the top plastic end tank, this is the most common part of radiator tank cracking / leaking for this unit - The CSF design in all-aluminum with the billet mounting pin, has solved this problem.

2A) CSF sells ~200 OEM replacement plastic/aluminum units p/ month of this model - There is a huge failure rate with the OEM unit, and we see this by our sales history every month. CSF defect rate is less than 2%.. For high performance, we're selling about 20 pieces p/ month, with a defect rate similar at around ~2-3%


3) This is one of CSF’s top 3 selling units - With over 200 sold p/ year - Undoubtedly, the CSF unit also has had failures because of the same issues that plague the OEM design, head gasket issues, and other failures caused by the mounting structure, vibration and other design flaws of the OEM radiator installation.

- With that being said, forum members typically write their experience if there is a problem with the unit, not if they’ve had a good experience with the radiator. CSF has had a few issues with this model, but as you can see from the forum postings, a lot of the bad apples are happening on the same vehicle, where there is most likely another problem causing the radiator to fail… Remember a radiator is a passive unit. There are no moving parts. Usually when it fails, it is caused by something else. Every CSF unit is leak tested at the factory to a pressure of 2x the operations pressure. Also, every design is put on our vibration testing bench during development to make sure there are no problems with our design, and that is can take the beating of HD/off-road use.

We pride ourself in backing up all warranty claims. As others have posted - we usually get warranties approved and sent out within 48 hours. However, when we start to see 2 or 3 failures on the same vehicle, we know that we're just throwing away money and good units on the same problem just to keep the customer happy. Then they may come on the forum and say it's the problem of the manufacturer.. This isn't necessarily the case, and the entire cooling system needs to be checked and addressed.. I haven't even discussed electrolysis which is a huge problem in regards to why radiators fail.
Most shops are lazy, and will fault the radiator, instead of doing a thorough check like they're supposed to be doing.

This is all just my .02 - we stand behind our product, and I hope that me jumping on here to address any concerns, misinformation, and shed light on the matter, will give other users the confidence to try CSF - We continue to sell these units at a great rate, with very few warranty claims annually..

Thanks for chiming in, I have been watching this post and keeping quite since this is a topic I don't know a whole lot about.

I could see why as a company you would want to limit the warranty replacements for a particular unit as it points to a systemic issue somewhere in the system and it is only showing in your product since its the "Fusible Link".

If this is happening to members on here do you have suggestions on how to pin point the true issue in the cooling system? I think this will certainly help people understand when its a Rad failure due to an manufacture issue vs. a failure elsewhere in the system and reduce "mis-information" in the future.

 

[Ravi_CSF]

Thanks for chiming in, I have been watching this post and keeping quite since this is a topic I don't know a whole lot about.

I could see why as a company you would want to limit the warranty replacements for a particular unit as it points to a systemic issue somewhere in the system and it is only showing in your product since its the "Fusible Link".

If this is happening to members on here do you have suggestions on how to pin point the true issue in the cooling system? I think this will certainly help people understand when its a Rad failure due to an manufacture issue vs. a failure elsewhere in the system and reduce "mis-information" in the future.

For starters:
1) If it's a blown head gasket, this usually causes temperature and pressure to spike.. You'll get steam erosion occuring in the system - this will cause white residue in the inlet/outlet pipes of the radiator. If you see this when taking the radiator out of the car, you can translate this to having a possible head gasket issue.

2) If the radiator fins seem burnt / fried / highly corroded (especially towards the end of tube rows where it meets the header plate) this could be electrolysis.

3) Failures that repeat themselves at the same area of the radiator - over multiple units - this is stress / failure point that has not been addressed by the installer / vehicle owner. There could be old / worn out rubber mounts. Or actually, the unit could be over tightened. Sometime a little bit of flex (give and play) is needed to make sure the radiator doesn't bend over high stress - This is especially important for HD/off-road radiators.
- We've had issues in the past that the installation of a certain radiator called for a little bit of wiggle room, and but of course all installers tightened the hell out of it - they all failed, and we had to fight all the claims with a service bulletin for the manufacturer who had issues proper installation instructions.

Point being that there are a lot of issues that can cause the radiator to fail. Blaming the radiator, especially from a 75+ year old manufacturer like CSF, is not always the best way to address the problem. We wouldn't be in business, selling over 500,000 units a year if we didn't build our units correctly.. Of course, with that being said, like all manufacturers, there is a warranty rate for any product, but we stand behind ours if there is a legitimate problem.

 

[Ghostbuster]

Well said. I hope OP can figure out his problem before he blows another radiator.

 

[alrock]

Ravi, thanks for your contribution here.

 

[RamRod]

For starters:
1) If it's a blown head gasket, this usually causes temperature and pressure to spike.. You'll get steam erosion occuring in the system - this will cause white residue in the inlet/outlet pipes of the radiator. If you see this when taking the radiator out of the car, you can translate this to having a possible head gasket issue.

2) If the radiator fins seem burnt / fried / highly corroded (especially towards the end of tube rows where it meets the header plate) this could be electrolysis.

3) Failures that repeat themselves at the same area of the radiator - over multiple units - this is stress / failure point that has not been addressed by the installer / vehicle owner. There could be old / worn out rubber mounts. Or actually, the unit could be over tightened. Sometime a little bit of flex (give and play) is needed to make sure the radiator doesn't bend over high stress - This is especially important for HD/off-road radiators.
- We've had issues in the past that the installation of a certain radiator called for a little bit of wiggle room, and but of course all installers tightened the hell out of it - they all failed, and we had to fight all the claims with a service bulletin for the manufacturer who had issues proper installation instructions.

Point being that there are a lot of issues that can cause the radiator to fail. Blaming the radiator, especially from a 75+ year old manufacturer like CSF, is not always the best way to address the problem. We wouldn't be in business, selling over 500,000 units a year if we didn't build our units correctly.. Of course, with that being said, like all manufacturers, there is a warranty rate for any product, but we stand behind ours if there is a legitimate problem.

Great info - Since you radiators are all aluminum, and I assume the mounting threads are too I imagine the torque spec is quite low, is there a general recommended torque spec that you guys suggest for you rads?

Thanks

 

[Ravi_CSF]

Great info - Since you radiators are all aluminum, and I assume the mounting threads are too I imagine the torque spec is quite low, is there a general recommended torque spec that you guys suggest for you rads?

Thanks

Torque to the same spec as the OEM radiator - no need to over torque. You would be surprised how many times I see mechanics over tighten bolts, or even worse, strip mounting holes and send them back as warranty claims. We see it all the time..