H3 More Passkey drama

[zenoreilly]

I thought I was safe.

I thought I had made an end-run around GM's wannabe-antitheft trash fire by replacing the relays and the ignition switch. No PCM coding/tune, no clipped wires or magical fairy-dust; just cry once and replace the parts. I thought I was set for another 100k miles (or however long it takes me to afford an LM2 Duramax and figure out how to get it installed). Just do the Konami-Key-Relearn and I'm set.

HA HA HA no. Seems the Security Dept. got wind of my cleverness, because the light won't turn off while doing the 3x10 relearn process. At all, ever. I put a trickle-charger on the battery and left the key turned on for over an hour, that light doesn't turn off until I take the key out. Just time it for 11 minutes each time, then? Nope. The instructions you find everywhere say "10 minutes or when the light goes out", implying if the light goes out before 10 minutes are up you don't have to wait, but even if it's "whichever comes first" it doesn't work; try to start it and Blinky-Lock say no.

Put the old switch back in, no such problem...except then I'm back to odd delays in starting/random Security Light surprises while driving. This is the 2nd switch after returning the first one thinking that was the problem (and AutoZone is only 2 miles away). New starter and powertrain relays. Battery is fine, terminals are too, but they won't be if I have to keep disconnecting the battery for this and that. What do?

 

[Jeepwalker]

That's Soooo frustrating!

You've kind of performed the most common fixes. I'm sure you double-checked the harness and wires to make sure there aren't any internally broken/damaged wires. Hopefully someone else will chime in with suggestions.

There was a post recently where they sent out the PCM and had the passkey disabled. Not really a 'fix' though.

 

[zenoreilly]

I just put the old switch back in and took it uptown to see if anything caught fire on the way. It sat for 2 weeks waiting for the right combination of time, daylight, and temperature--none of which I had much of--and I have things to get at Menards tomorrow that won't fit in a car. I'll keep the switch and maybe I'll discover something new before it strands me, which fortunately hasn't happened yet (pretty unnerving having your cruise control suddenly shut off at 70 MPH though).

So much for proactive maintenance.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Glad you got it roadworthy. I thought of another thing last night. Easy to do. If you haven't already, loosen, clean and re-do your grounds on your battery, engine, body, and PCM. Make sure they are clean and sound and the cable-ends are good. I would consider running a wire from a body ground to as close to your switch (if not ON the switch bolts). Flow of electrons is from negative to positive, so if your grounds are suspect (and we know vehicles corrode in the rust belt), you basically could be getting 'dirty power'. Integrated circuits and modules don't like dirty power and tend to act flaky when the juice falls outside a certain parameter. That 'could' be a contributing factor. Use a high-count fine braided wire (not course strand) for best results ...as electrons flow on the surface of wires, not inside them.

Vehicles these days with all their electronics need good grounds. When the interior is removed from an H3, one can see lots of small ground wires coming out of the harness and attached to the body at various points. I've had some grounds on my H3's floor corrode (from water on the floor). Modern cars are sensitive to bad grounds. I'm sure you've read it a bunch while doing your research. And if the main body ground from the battery/engine to the body are weak at any point, that can affect the integrity of all those other smaller ground wires that are placed throughout the H3's body and frame. Maybe you've already cleaned them super-good already (batt/body/engine&Frame grounds), but if not, make them spotlessly clean. It's one more thing to check off the list of possibilities if you haven't.

Sometimes it's the simple things ya can't see that cause problems.

 

[4speedfunk]

Maybe it’s not the pass key system? My H3 will lock the key in the ignition anytime the battery gets low. Sometimes it sits for a couple months and when I try to start it…it freaks out and locks the key. I put a charger on it for a couple hours and it’s good again. This only happens when the battery gets low. This tells me the pass key system being activated does not necessarily mean there is a problem with the pass key system. It can be activated by low voltage, which can be caused by something completely outside of the pass lock system.

You mentioned something about the cruise control shutting off while driving? My 08 did this when it was a month old. I took it to the dealer and they traced it back to a faulty brake light switch. The switch would also drain the battery when parked and thus…mimic a pass key issue. It was intermittent which made it hard for me to diagnose. However the dealer techs were immediately aware of the issue, and seemed to indicate it was a common H3 problem. They had it fixed in 30 minutes…been good for 13 years since.

You might take a closer look at your brake light switch. When those fail, it can cause all sorts of weird issues, including random cruise control and voltage drain problems (both you seem to have).

 

[Jeepwalker]

Those are good points. Lot of vehicles will lock the key if the battery is low or flaky batt/grounds connections. Dodge Rams, the Tradesman's that have an old-school key definitely do it (been there). There are a lot of posts about that on the Ram forum. And the brake switch ...they've become incredibly cheap these days, they don't last as long as the days of old. There again, on the Dodge Rams they flake out rather often. So good suggestion there.

Also wouldn't hurt to double-check the pin connector and wires between the body and the door. After so many open/close cycles, and esp in the cold North they can break and cause issues. And the connector pins *could* be corroded. Worth an inspection when the temps get warmer. The window/door lock module is beneath the window switches. By extension it affects security too. So yeah, items besides the ignition could be at play. That's one good thing about the Tech1 scanner, a guy can activate most of those sub-systems right from the scanner to test. But of course scanners don't always pinpoint problems. Just a helpful tool.

 

[Jeepwalker]

The passkey and window module issue seem to be the worst issues we have to deal with on our H3's. Newer vehicles, however, have way more electronic subsystems and the faults greater and trickier (in some cases) to iron out. Items like Electric steering for instance, the circuit boards are starting to show failures inside the racks, and yer talking $1500-$2000 for a new steering rack (not even available right now for Dodge Rams). Guys will quickly figure out a lower-cost fix probalby. Cylinder deactivation eating cams, Emissions more complex. Large LCD's with integrated radio & hvac are seeing screen delaminations due to cabin heat. And cost a bunch to replace (to get yer radio and hvac working again). Electronic drains harder to find. Greater 4x4 traction control interlocks and faults. Electronic driver "aids" like lane-keep, braking, etc that scratch yer head when they send fault lights or don't work. Software updates that don't 'take' properly and cost guys hours to get resolved. Etc

H3's seem to be a nice middle-ground between traditional 4x4 and some ok tech, without as many electronic systems to fail.

Hopefully you can get your current passkey problems worked through and put that problem to rest once and for all

 

[zenoreilly]

Maybe it’s not the pass key system? My H3 will lock the key in the ignition anytime the battery gets low.

Sometimes it sits for a couple months and when I try to start it…it freaks out and locks the key. I put a charger on it for a couple hours and it’s good again. This only happens when the battery gets low. This tells me the pass key system being activated does not necessarily mean there is a problem with the pass key system. It can be activated by low voltage, which can be caused by something completely outside of the pass lock system.

All H3s do that; not directly Passkey-related but it is to prevent getting around antitheft countermeasures by draining battery voltage. Well-known annoyance. These days it only prevents theft of targets-of-opportunity but back in the day (WAY back) it was surprisingly common to icepick the battery and drain the acid out so the alarm wouldn't go off. Clifford got the idea to use a normally-open relay to get around that and I thought it was a settled issue until I discovered the H3's little you-can't-have-the-key-back trick. In any event, battery voltage wasn't low enough to explain that, in this case; the trickle-charger was just to keep it lit while doing the key-relearn when it's 15°F out.

You mentioned something about the cruise control shutting off while driving? My 08 did this when it was a month old. I took it to the dealer and they traced it back to a faulty brake light switch. The switch would also drain the battery when parked and thus…mimic a pass key issue. It was intermittent which made it hard for me to diagnose. However the dealer techs were immediately aware of the issue, and seemed to indicate it was a common H3 problem. They had it fixed in 30 minutes…been good for 13 years since.

You might take a closer look at your brake light switch. When those fail, it can cause all sorts of weird issues, including random cruise control and voltage drain problems (both you seem to have).

This is indeed useful information and the first I'd heard about it so thanks for that; but in my case I do know the cruise shutting off is Passkey-related because the Security light comes on at the exact same time, every time. Everything else continues working normally. The way I normally disengage the cruise is by tapping my brake pedal and this hits different; it's a lot more abrupt and if you didn't know any better you'd think the engine stopped running so something's forcing the issue. That said, a new brake-light switch can't be that much so I'll probably replace that just on general principles when I can get into it without risking frostbite (buddy's shop is booked solid but for one day next week and I'm using that for a brake-flush).

 

[Jeepwalker]

All H3s do that; not directly Passkey-related but it is to prevent getting around antitheft countermeasures by draining battery voltage. Well-known annoyance.

Ha ha ....some things don't change: Thieves would crawl under cars of the 70's & Corvettes when they started using alarms, and drill through the battery to steal them ...as you pointed out.

 

[zenoreilly]

Large LCD's are seeing some screen delaminations due to cabin heat ...and cost a small fortune to replace (to get yer radio and hvac working again).

Dashboard touchscreens = Worst. Idea. Ever.

Don't get me wrong: I've been in IT for years--cut my teeth on the Apple IIe long before it was old enough to be a collectors' item and I still have heater cores left over from back when water-cooling for PCs was almost exclusively a DIY operation--so I'm not afraid of technological advances when they serve a purpose. The problem is, humans themselves have not been sufficiently upgraded beyond "OOOOH PRETTY" and taking your eyes off the road is taking your eyes off the road. Make it bigger and more elaborate, you say? Of course! What could possibly go wrong there? :rant:
I have a nice JVC head with the Crutchfield wired-for-the-H3 plugs (that was all the bravery I could manage knowing how the electronics can be in these things), full-size touchscreen replacement for the OEM hole, and it's going away. It'll get replaced with a dual-DIN kit for some ham radio gear and a preamp for my phone (yeah, it's a touchscreen, but it's also at eye-level and can be voice-controlled without mistaking "Volume Down" for mumble-rap).

So, yeah. Like I said I just put the old switch back in and I'm holding on to the new one just in case "whatever" happens. It's been fine for a few days; I work from home so normally it doesn't move but twice a week anyway. I may get lucky and the original problems might have just been a combination of the relays being bad and ignition switch being mounted off-center...

AND SPEAKING OF WHICH...

Has anyone else who has replaced their ignition switch noticed that the threads for the screw-holes in the lock body tend to strip out almost immediately? It's not like I was putting the screws in with a corded DeWalt because you can't get anything powered in there to begin with, but after the 3rd go-round the bottom screw never tightened; took it out and it gave no resistance. Got a light on it and the threads are just...not there. They may not have been there in the first place for all I know.