SO.... is there really no way to fix the steering rack issue on the H3?

[atvspeed4]

Anyone figure out what rack we could use as an upgrade? Yes, I know custom tierods, yes I know custom mounts...

 

[Hunner]

Yea a 2500 or 3500 could work but I don't know if those are the same. Some mount work on our basically stock H3's would have to be done.
I'm also not sure it would solve the problem unless they are beefier to begin with and could stand the abuse of the angled tie rods after cranking the torsions. I got a 2500 tie rod and carried it around to machine shops and found one that would modify those for our racks but I never got a rack to look at. Can't see them very well on new trucks with that air damn in the way.
Maybe I can check with my local dealer and get a picture of a real one, or find one image Bebe posted.

 

[06 H3]

Is my steering rack tough??? Hunner I will be emailing you! I need a new sleeve...I didnt have loctite at the time when I installed the sleeve. I was planning on going back but never did. It was able to loosen up just enough for the steel plate I had behind it to fall out then it let the sleeve fall out. I got off the trail with the entire rack bouncing around the damn mount with no sleeve or bushing. Talk about sketchy!!!! My rack didnt break. While I may be "polishing a turd" part I will loctite it, reinforce it and plant that sucker down until we come up with a real solution so we never have to worry about it again.

All in all it was a good day and made it off the trail in one piece, Trust me when I say its sketchy driving down the freeway with no sleeve in the mount, you turn the wheel and nothing happens until the rack pivots itself the way you turn. You could feel it in the steering wheel, floorboard and hear it

 

[backcountryislife]

YIKES man... that's no bueno.

 

[atvspeed4]

Yea a 2500 or 3500 could work but I don't know if those are the same. Some mount work on our basically stock H3's would have to be done.
I'm also not sure it would solve the problem unless they are beefier to begin with and could stand the abuse of the angled tie rods after cranking the torsions. I got a 2500 tie rod and carried it around to machine shops and found one that would modify those for our racks but I never got a rack to look at. Can't see them very well on new trucks with that air damn in the way.
Maybe I can check with my local dealer and get a picture of a real one, or find one image Bebe posted.

I looked over Bebe's thread and found the picture of the rack she used. I also saw somewhere that it was out of a 2008 silverado. I think that would mean it was out of a 1500 as I am 100% positive that the 2500 4x4 uses and idler centerlink and pitman arm. I did find that the 2500 (less than 8000GVW) 2wd express vans use a rack and pinion that looks just like the one she used. The only issue I see with this is that she wrote that the width of the rack works well with the widened stance. Not sure but this could mean that the rack is wider than stock which would give use geometry issues.

 

[Hunner]

Yea what I looked at was a 1500 chevy full size pickup but have not plans to pursue all of that.
I have not looked at the other two just thought they might be heavier.
My Dodge 2500 is the type that used idler and pitman. Just replaced all of that and ball joints at 224,000 miles!

 

[atvspeed4]

Yea what I looked at was a 1500 chevy full size pickup but have not plans to pursue all of that.
I have not looked at the other two just thought they might be heavier.
My Dodge 2500 is the type that used idler and pitman. Just replaced all of that and ball joints at 224,000 miles!

Your lucky on the S10's that I also build parts for I used to replace the idler arm after every offroad trip.

 

[backcountryislife]

Got my sleeve a few days ago, once I've got all the parts together (T case, rack, both diffs) I'll get working on this, and post up some info. Glad to give this a try, should work well, and I actually plan to run two stock mounts & one with the sleeve. Nothing exceeds like excess!!

 

[atvspeed4]

How much material total is there behind the rack when you compress the factory bracket. Between the steering rack and frame. Is there 0.25" total?

 

[backcountryislife]

Looks like it depends on where you're looking at.

 

[atvspeed4]

This distance

 

[Hunner]

As you probably know it is most important not to change the alignment of the rack. That was repeatedly pointed out to me by Randy and BP NOT to do, when I told him how I was going to reinforce the mounting. I believe that to be true.
Any supporting material between the rack and frame member should not mis-align the rack or cause stress on it by pushing or pulling it or you will be stressing it even more.
I tried to explain that several times in my install thread and showed my concern when choosing the sleeve that it would not do that. I was also concerned people would try to space that out to get the sleeve tight rather than taking material off the bracket so it would fit tighter.

Same thing is true with the center bracket. I fitted the backing plate so as not to move the rack but hold it in place where it was. That is a custom fit as well as where the cross member is welded holding the top and bottom pieces it is made of comes together can vary.

This is farmer technology, you gotta get in there and make your mod for your application and specific vehicle. Paper work and drawings won't cut it you got to get dirty and keep whittling until it fits.

 

[06 H3]

Good info there Hunner. I have a spare rack now so I am going to install it with these added mods. For the added bracket it is not bolted down to the actual crossmember correct?

Also, my intermediate shaft has seen excessive play and I see some rust on it should I go ahead and replace that to be safe?

 

[Hunner]

Yes it IS bolted to the cross member. The added bracket is mounted with a bolt thru the frame member. I'm trying to find some old pictures.
I had to use a 1/2 inch drill, drill a smaller pilot hole and then run the correct size bit thru there all the while keeping it level and straight. Another fun project!! There are double layers and it is hard to keep straight.
I can't really say about the shaft but if you ask that question and are concerned I would replace it or at least inspect it very closely.
I got salt water on mine down in Galveston and I pulled it off and media blasted it and put rust preventive stuff on it, just in case.
If you do that remember you MUST secure the steering wheel in place or you will screw up the alignment for the tracking sensor and have to go to a dealer to get that working. If it spins it will loose it's reference point.

 

[08H3]

This is farmer technology, you gotta get in there and make your mod for your application and specific vehicle. Paper work and drawings won't cut it you got to get dirty and keep whittling until it fits.

That's the wisest advice on the subject. I'm not at all knocking Hunner's mod. It works without issue for 99% of the people, but mine just flopped around. There was no way I could ever grind enough off the bracket to tighten up. I had to do a combination of that and spacing it out. Bottom line is you have to get something solid in there to fill the space between the bracket/frame and rack without affecting alignment.

 

[Hunner]

Rack sleeve up date.
They are finally going to hardening Friday and will ship Monday.
Anybody other than those on this thread or have pmed me wanting these speak up now.
I could add to the order before Friday if I need to.
I have 30 coming as of this order.
Thanks
be careful out there!

 

[atvspeed4]

Not sure if anyone would know this off hand but what are the diameter of the bolts that hold the stock bracket on? Also the diameter of the rack where the bracket mounts? I don't have access to my h3 right now and am working on a cad drawing. Thanks in advance

 

[atvspeed4]

Im thinking something along these lines. The space between the frame and steering rack would stay constant at whatever it should be from the factory. There would be a 1/8" gap between the two pieces to allow you to torque down on the whole assembly and put pressure on the rack without pulling it out of alignment. It may also be possible to add a knurled finish to the inside which would stop side to side movement of the rack. I am also thinking it may be worthwhile to have aluminum spacers turned so that the stock bushings on the otherside could be pressed out and solid aluminum pressed in. These two mods just might do it. What are your thoughts??

 

[backcountryislife]

Im thinking something along these lines. The space between the frame and steering rack would stay constant at whatever it should be from the factory. There would be a 1/8" gap between the two pieces to allow you to torque down on the whole assembly and put pressure on the rack without pulling it out of alignment. It may also be possible to add a knurled finish to the inside which would stop side to side movement of the rack. I am also thinking it may be worthwhile to have aluminum spacers turned so that the stock bushings on the otherside could be pressed out and solid aluminum pressed in. These two mods just might do it. What are your thoughts??

View attachment 5752

I think that would be a very solid solution.

I was thinking about how to "knurl" the inside of the sleeve Hunner sent me, I think that would help with movement... I was thinking of taking the grinder with a cutoff wheel LIGHTLY to the surfaces... not sure how that would work. I just see it slipping a bit since the surface of the rack is so slippery. I was trying to think of how else you could get them to "stick" better.

 

[Hunner]

I'm not sure about mounting the drivers side solid. Seems there should be just a bit of isolation or dampening and a bit of relief available from shock loads.
I don't have any problem with the drivers side. Having two mounts opposed to each other seems to work.

Until you have been initiated into the "upper bolt club" and tried to remove the top bolt you may want to figure out how to get a bolt in if you use a block design like you have pictured. Even with the thin bracket there is not much room to spare and still have a bolt long enough to engage the threads in the welded in nut.

My preferred method.

If you have more room than that takes to tighten it up, then I agree your particular vehicle must somehow be different. My two H3's were about the same and tightened up.
I hope we can figure out why some have a bigger gap, if that is the case.
If anyone has a big enough gap to insert a flat piece without moving the rack out, you might try one the entire length of the bracket and drill holes inline with the existing mounting bolts. You will may need to smooth the weld on the cross member for it to fit flat.

 

[atvspeed4]

My concern with not solid mounting both sides is that you are firmly holding the passenger side in place and have rubber bushings that are probably worn on the driverside. This allows slight movement up/ down/ in/ out on the driverside and the fulcrum is moved to the seam between the two halfs. Even with two mounts that is the weak point. I definitely see what you are saying with shock loads but just bringing up another question to look at.

 

[Hunner]

Repeated inspections and testing I see very little movement on the drivers side. Firming up the passengers side bracket will still allow some movement of the inner rack shaft out at that end. At some point a seal in that end may wear in there enough to leak as some have done.
There is almost always room for some improvement and I look forward to your solution.

For whatever reason some people break racks and some don't. Driver care does not always keep it from happening.
I know I broke mine having to power up a hill I regularly made with ease when my locker was working but when it failed I admit to giving it more power and got wheel spin.
If I remember correctly I first did this mod on my 06 at around 10,000 miles and drove it to 50,000. I have over 50,000 miles on my 08 H3Alpha and I will have to go back and find some old posts, but I put this setup on that one I think around 12,000 or more miles.
May have been a little later, I fergit!

 

[backcountryislife]

What do you think about putting the solid brace right at the joint & leaving the end one rubber?
I was planning on doing 3 of them, the question is just where will the solid mount do the most good.

 

[Hunner]

I guess it depends on access to that area to mount one. I can't remember about that. I do recall wanting the center one almost against one of those welded hydraulic fittings so the rack would not move the bracket. Not sure that is good or not. I was more concerned at that time about up and down leverage.
I wanted to stop the movement before it got to the drivers side end.
Just my take on it, get creative and let us know.

 

[atvspeed4]

Would it be of any benefit to have the stock rubber bushings made out of delrin?