SO.... is there really no way to fix the steering rack issue on the H3?

[reaper]

Here's a photo of the mount. There's a lot of wiggle-room in the mount... it lets the rack move back and forth about a 1/3 inch...

 

[reaper]

Video footage

Here's the issue...

[video=youtube;nBg9bT3EuoI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBg9bT3EuoI[/video]

 

[backcountryislife]

Here's a photo of the mount. There's a lot of wiggle-room in the mount... it lets the rack move back and forth about a 1/3 inch...

View attachment 5949

And keep in mind this is on a rancho setup... not cranked at all... perfectly straight. If his truck is doing this to his rack, how could our cranked ones hold up under heavy stress??

 

[4speedfunk]

Yeah...thats no good. Loosen the clamp bolt...stick a 1/8" washer in between the frame and the bushing....re-tighten. Wiggle will be gone.

Found the truss pics. Slightly different topic so I posted it elsewhere...
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3333-Front-axle-beef-up

 

[atvspeed4]

I wish someone had spare diff brackets... I would make a kit to help this.

 

[atvspeed4]

to add to discussion...

http://www.lotusmarques.com/parts/datasheets/466-elan-steering-rack-alloy-mounts

 

[backcountryislife]

Sure seems to me to be a better way to go.


I'm having my guy make me some plastic bushings for the driver's side as well... he's got a few types & decided that ABS was the best thing to work with. Going to try that. IMO, if you lock down the Passenger side, the 1/4"+ that the driver's side moves will still allow it to break. I'm going to give both a try, then go beat the he!! out of it.

 

[atvspeed4]

Part #1 complete

 

[backcountryislife]

what is that guy?

 

[atvspeed4]

Thats the new inner ballsocket for my tierods. Then I am machining a 1.25" diameter 1144 stressproof bar to be the solid adjuster sleeve and I have found an oem outer tierod that fits our steering knuckle.

 

[06 H3]

That's the new piece or stock piece? One plus side to hunners tie rod is that it will relieve stress on the steering rack this ball and socket will still allow the tie rod to push up on the rack unless it offers more articulation with a bigger ball housing correct?

 

[atvspeed4]

Thats the new piece. The heim tierods do not relieve any stress on the steering rack. As I showed before in my little pictures I made, adding heim adapters to the steering rack makes the rack wider and the "tierod" shorter and this increases the angle up on the rack. The bend in the adjuster does not help this but is designer to allow full suspension travel due to the limited movement of the heim joints with misalignment spacers.

 

[Hunner]

quote atvspeed4 " The heim tierods do not relieve any stress on the steering rack."

I beg to differ, for the sake of discussion, as I understand it the BP with heims articulate to 30 degrees rather than about 22 so instead of that tiny ball joint and shaft leveraging when maxed out up and down it has more room to move freely before that happens, at both ends. In all but maybe extreme cases I don't think they ever get to that point and the suspension may limit out before 30 degrees.
So you had the stock one recreated with the same size ball and shaft?
Why not just cut some OEM and add whatever it is you are going to do? Is that shaft threaded?
14mm or 16mm are still this size at the end, so is this one also that tiny size?

This one is at max drop with all stock components and if the torsions are cranked and longer shocks are installed to get 1/2 inch more travel these will be trying to go past this point and leveraging on the housing and rack end.

I'm just trying to follow and understand.

 

[atvspeed4]

Crank your torsions as far as you want and add 40 inch travel shocks , the metal droop stop under the upper control arm will not let your suspension droop any farther and the bump stop will not let it compress anymore. Your suspension maxes out before your tierods.

I found a source for 16mm inner tierods and am having those cut down and rethreaded, then having custom solid adjuster sleeves machined.

 

[Hunner]

I will try to find some other images or shoot some.
This is full turned to the right so the outer heim has an angle to it but straight ahead that gets nearly level.
This is steep?

Here is a stock one

 

[Hunner]

Crank your torsions as far as you want and add 40 inch travel shocks , the metal droop stop under the upper control arm will not let your suspension droop any farther and the bump stop will not let it compress anymore. Your suspension maxes out before your tierods.

I found a source for 16mm inner tierods and am having those cut down and re-threaded, then having custom solid adjuster sleeves machined.

We may be talking about different set ups.
Part of that is true, I am aware of the metal bump stop on the frame.
As shown in the previous images anyone adjusting for 1/2 inch more droop and extended anti-sway bar links and shocks will max out OEM tie rods before striking the metal suspension stop on the frame. Just to make sure it was a soft landing if it did get that far I added limit straps when I first did all that and before the BP tie rods.
This is just a shot at rest showing the stop you refer to.

I look forward to the completion of your take on these tie rods.

 

[atvspeed4]

On my previous black 2006 I had stock suspension and my upper control arm came in contact with the metal droop stop. I had no issue with the inner ball socket.

The small bend in the tierods is not what counts as being level look at the angle of the tierod sleeve on the side of the rack. That is pushing up on the end of the rack. Also this really isn't a good comparison as the outer heim raises the pivot point higher than stock as we discussed before this has its own negative effect on the steering geometry.

I will not install a tierod system that changes the geometry of my steering or would have drastic toe changes such as we saw in the picture of your h3 coming over the ledge at full droop. I need another option and this seems to be it so far.

Hopefully this works, but who knows. I guess we will never find out unless we try right?

 

[Hunner]

No those are not the same height. The first is BP on the ground showing what I believe is not as steep as stock.
The second of OEM is showing it at max droop of about 22 degrees as I found that first.
I could not find one at rest of the OEM with an angle that quickly but will.
I have apparently failed at the explanation that alot of that toe change in that shot is mostly the frame being high centered on one side and a wheel dangling but the tie rods ability to absorb that change without breaking, for me was what was good about that. They seem to be working with out any destructive negative effects.

Oh I think you have another option going there as far as beefing up the adjustable end but was not criticizing your efforts but was wanting to understand if you beef that up so it won't bend how will that affect the ball end where it is turned down so it will clear that housing.
Sort of the fuse theory transmitted further up the line.
I love the discussion.
I will check back later, gotta do Grampa duty.

 

[reaper]

Ok Hunner (and the rest of the peanut gallery): need your opinion here. My truck is apart right now with the tcase out.... I'm KIND of waiting on finishing that before I tackle my steering issue (but might get bored and change this strategy while I wait for parts). You can see my pic and video on page 7 of this thread. There's separation in the rack... does that mean the rack is pretty much shot and I should just install a new one with mods and your sleeve? Or, is it serviceable? Can I take it off and push that thing tight again and make it like new, or is it just a trail spare now?

Your pic of it over here (http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?3403-Hunner-sleeve-install-with-a-twist/page2) shows a gap with it off the truck, does that slide in and out or does the gap mean it's broke?

I do have a slow power steering fluid leak... it leaks all over the diff and the bottom armor, I have to add some every now and then and when I forget she starts to be pretty ornery on me.

 

[atvspeed4]

Its broken! Definitely need to replace it if there is a break where the steel tube slides over the aluminum cast section

 

[reaper]

Its broken! Definitely need to replace it if there is a break where the steel tube slides over the aluminum cast section

Crap. And it's not fixable, it needs a complete replacement?

 

[Hunner]

Immm baaack
If you look close there are only two detent marks in that black steel tube that attach it to the aluminum. I think once it breaks off the aluminum it was slid over, that's all folks. If you operate it like that, that part will slide back and forth rather than fully stroking the inner toothed rack and tie rods. That could have caused the fluid to overfill back to the reservoir and spill out, or there is a hairline crack in the short line.
Wasn't the steering wandering all over the place?
If you need a rack pm me.

 

[Hunner]

to add to discussion...

http://www.lotusmarques.com/parts/datasheets/466-elan-steering-rack-alloy-mounts

Just happens my friend's shop where I moonlight and we prepared and maintain several race cars for clients is a Lotus dealer and services British Cars including Jags and also Ferrari and other exotics.
My first observation was the similar Jag rack laying on the bench, as I mentioned years ago and some others that might could be adapted.
His answer at the time about making the rack mount solid on the outer passenger side was, do you think on that Hummer with those giant tires you could tell the difference on or offroad if there was a little feedback?? and over here we have..........
So I went for the farmer simple cheap fix to see what happened and have been running it every since.

 

[Hunner]

I had to make a new shot to try to match the tire angle of the old one since I can't do that anymore.
First is OEM second is BP maybe 2 degree more. It's hard to get the level on there because of the bend and nut on the inner to show the angle at the rack.

 

[reaper]

I just ordered a new rack... $200 plus $50 shipping. PM me for info if you need one, don't want to post the source and have them disappear overnight.