• Welcome to H4O! For a reduced ad experience, please login or register with the forum.

6L80e 6spd Conversion

amrg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,317
Location
Qatar
Really? Wouldn't the 6l80 need its input shaft replaced to also bolt up (if the 4l60 needs work to convert from an I5 specific 4l60 to a V8 specific 4l60 i would assume the 6l80 will need work to adapt from a V8 to an I5, besides the custom bellhousing (unless there is a oem bellhousing for the 6l80 on the I5).

You will need a TCM and somehow modify the harness to incorporate the input speed sensor on the trans (06 models have an output speed sensor only at the transfer case).
 

Kyle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Clarita, CA
Really? Wouldn't the 6l80 need its input shaft replaced to also bolt up (if the 4l60 needs work to convert from an I5 specific 4l60 to a V8 specific 4l60 i would assume the 6l80 will need work to adapt from a V8 to an I5, besides the custom bellhousing (unless there is a oem bellhousing for the 6l80 on the I5).

You will need a TCM and somehow modify the harness to incorporate the input speed sensor on the trans (06 models have an output speed sensor only at the transfer case).

I believe you are correct the input shaft would need to be swapped, and if you go to page one of this thread you can see that adventr posted a link to tbms website with the adapter plate for the i5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

amrg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,317
Location
Qatar
I took a look at that link and yes they have an adapter plate but thats for the transfer case to bolt up in the correct location to the the transmission.
Also, the input shaft they mention is the transfer case input shaft.
They don't mention the transmission input shaft nor bellhousing.
Since all H3s have the same transfer case body, this adapter will work on all H3s.
But bolting the trans itself to the back of the engine requires a trans/engine specific bellhousing. For a 6l80 this is available for all LS platforms.
What im asking, is there a bellhousing to bolt the trans to the back of the I5?
 

amrg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,317
Location
Qatar

Kyle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Clarita, CA
Did some research

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...bc-ls-v8-block-bellhousing-adapter-kit.13828/


This adapter will somehow allow to bolt the 6l80 behind the atlas engine (3.5/3.7) but will require modifying.

Below is a link for the manufacturer:

http://www.emtechmotorsports.com/block_adapter.html

But, tbms only makes the harness to adapt the 6l80 to 2008+ H3 models (they use an E67+T42) and not the 2006/2007 model

What modifying is required? This sounds like a possibility in my future. Edit* just read the link, just have to remove material. But pretty much bolts up. My question would be would the need for a special torque converter or something be needed for connecting the engine and trans?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
755
Location
Louisiana
Let me try to simplify this discussion, at least from the hardware side.

This is the factory I5 transmission. It is NOT the standard chevy pattern that has been used for the last 40 years, it is an atlas engine specific pattern.




If you notice the starter is at the 2'oclock position on the drivers side. Also note the torque converter, it is the smaller 245mm converter and it has a narrow pointed pilot made to fit the atlas engine crank.

This is the same transmission but fitted with the older style standard chevy bellhousing. Note the starter is at the 8'oclock position. Note also this is a 298mm torque converter which is a bit larger. Notice the snout on the torque converter, it is 1.70" diameter and stubby to fit small block chevy or LT engine cranks.



The pattern for LS engines is identical, however the distance from the bellhousing face is a little different and the top spot of the bellhousing has an additional bolt hole. Here is a 6L80e and you can see the similarities



So lets backtrack. The reason the factory I5 transmission needs modification when going from I5 to V8 is because the bellhousing pattern is different. In addition, the pilot dimensions on the torque converter won't match either so that has to be changed as well. All of the LS style torque converters are built for a 30 spline input shaft on the transmission. The I5 torque converter is matched to a 27 spline input. So when swapping out from I5 to v8, at a minimum the bellhousing, torque converter and input shaft all have to be changed to allow it to bolt up to an LS engine. The 6L80e by comparison already has an LS compatible bellhousing and torque converter so no modifications are needed to bolt it to an LS engine.

Now going the other way, trying to bolt a 6L80e to an I5 also is not directly compatible. Looking at the back of the i5 makes it very obvious.



The pattern is completely different, the starter is on the wrong side, plus the torque converter snout doesn't match the crank. The solution to this would be to bolt on an adapter plate to the back of the engine to provide the correct interface. This is not as simple as it sounds, the first point would look to be that the starter needs to go right where the exhaust is. Second, not only does the transmission pattern need to match, things like torque converter depth in relation to the bell face plus pilot snout dimensions must all also match. I cannot comment on the availability of these adapters, but from some above links, it seems like at least one or two have attempted it.

Now on to the output side. The 4L60e has a 27 spline output shaft. The 4L80e and the 6L80e both run a larger dimension 32 spline output. This is what the factory transmission looks like at the rear.



To adapt the transfer case two routes can be taken. 1) match the transfer case input to the transmission output, or 2) match the transmission output to the transfer case input. For our case as explained in earlier posts in this thread, there is no available 32 spline input available for the borg warner transfer case, and even further, there is not even enough material in the factory transfer case input to bore it out to 32 spline. This leaves only one option for running the factory transfer case, cut the transmission output shaft down to a 27 spline.

This is not a major undertaking for a competent shop, HOWEVER, the output shaft is the first part that is assembled in the case. So that means to get the output shaft out to machine it, the entire transmission must be disassembled to get to it. So even if you score a low mileage perfectly good transmission, you still have to tear it all the way down to swap parts into it.

That should cover the mechanical side, I'll let others comment on the electrical side. As a side note, the tech is now there to run a 6L80e standalone. Thats the path I am about to dive head first into behind a diesel.
 
Last edited:

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
Casey, What makes everyone stay with the factory transfer case vs. changing to a drivers side Atlas or something? I know this would have to be done only with a SAS due to the front axle is passenger drop but still is there any reason everyone sticks to it?
 

RamRod

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,914
Location
AB, Canada
Casey, What makes everyone stay with the factory transfer case vs. changing to a drivers side Atlas or something? I know this would have to be done only with a SAS due to the front axle is passenger drop but still is there any reason everyone sticks to it?

That seems like a big enough reason to me... Who wants to swap the transmission, transfer case and do a SAS all in one go?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,713
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I'd say that^ and factory electronics, oem/factory look, that sort of thing. Idk what all would be involved in getting an Atlas case to work with the factory controls and so on, or if its a twin stick thing.
 

High Five H2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,627
Location
West Texas
anyone have any idea how tough the H3 TC is compared to an atlas? That's the only reason i'd swap it out, is if it broke consistently.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
755
Location
Louisiana
anyone have any idea how tough the H3 TC is compared to an atlas? That's the only reason i'd swap it out, is if it broke consistently.

Not to say its unbreakable, but the H3 transfer case does not seem to be the weak link. There have been very few straight up TC failures here.

Casey, What makes everyone stay with the factory transfer case vs. changing to a drivers side Atlas or something? I know this would have to be done only with a SAS due to the front axle is passenger drop but still is there any reason everyone sticks to it?

That said, no reason you couldn't put any transfer case you wanted out there. There are plenty of issues to overcome if you did.
1) finding a passenger drop case
2) if its stick shifted, finding room on the tunnel and physically adding the levers and cables
3) electronically, the ECM knows when the TC control module is in 4lo and adjusts the shift maps accordingly. The speed sensor is on the TC output shaft so the ECM has to know the relationship of the engine to output ratio.
4) You will need an awd case + passenger drop (good luck)
5) custom adapter to trans. Our case is an oddball 5 hole pattern
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
I've also seen the Atlas equipped H3 (it's a red one). No info other than that.

On the swap...you can use an NP-241 from a 91 Burb. This case is passenger drop, traditional 2HI/4HI/4LO layout, and it has a VSS. A guy on the Colorado forums did a write-up on the swap. Obviously you need a part-time front axle to really take advantage of the 2HI mode. The jury is out on whether this is actually an upgrade...not sure if this case is any stronger than the BW-4494, and it does not have the 4:1 low either. But at least you get 2HI mode.

The trans adapter is nothing custom. Just un-bolt the 5-stud one and bolt-on the 6-stud one (which begs the question why did GM use the 5-stud on the H3 anyway?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

atvspeed4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,211
Location
massachusetts
I've also seen the Atlas equipped H3 (it's a red one). No info other than that.

On the swap...you can use an NP-241 from a 91 Burb. This case is passenger drop, traditional 2HI/4HI/4LO layout, and it has a VSS. A guy on the Colorado forums did a write-up on the swap. Obviously you need a part-time front axle to really take advantage of the 2HI mode. The jury is out on whether this is actually an upgrade...not sure if this case is any stronger than the BW-4494, and it does not have the 4:1 low either. But at least you get 2HI mode.

The trans adapter is nothing custom. Just un-bolt the 5-stud one and bolt-on the 6-stud one (which begs the question why did GM use the 5-stud on the H3 anyway?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are running a 91 NP 241 in our H3 currently. Was a pain to swap and the TCCM is not as simple as the colorado so you cannot just remove the system like they can do without affecting the stabilitrac, abs and traction control system (it went crazy when we started our H3) The distance between the input and front output is wider than the stock t-case so the torque bar mount bosses on the 241 (which are not used) need to be ground off to clear the torsion bar. The trans adapter like you had mentioned is just a factory 6 bolt from a silverado and was easy to swap. The vss has a different plug than the H3 and the thread size is different so you cannot just swap the vss. You need to cut and splice the 241 vss to the H3 harness. The electronics were a pain to figure out but works and the H3 computer has no clue there is a different T-case. Our plan was to test the system with the 241 as they are cheap and easy to find around here then build a 32 splined input dana 300 with 4:1 and swap to the 6l80e.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
Great to know ATV. I guess you can also mate the 241 with a D300...I saw one in an XJ awhile back. This gives you a double low range but I'm not real sure about the specifics. I know it's a common kit for the Jeep guys.

I personally would be more interested in a Colorado/Canyon t-case mated with an H3 t-case. Not sure how the two compare...but it would be nice to swap the 4:1 gear set into the part-time CC case and run it. Convert the 4HI-street button to 2HI while still keeping the same basic footprint and connections. I have no idea if this is possible but, it seems to be the least radical of all the other options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,496
Location
Meridian, ID
The nice thing about a d300, NP205 or atlas is that there is aftermarket support to run GM VSS since so many buggies run GM drivetrains. I know there is more work to it then just that but atleast you don't have to fab up tone rings for a tcase.

Personally I'd stay away from the D300. the few times I've come up on a group stopped on the trail with a t case problem I would ask what t case are you running? Every damn time the answer is a D300. if you want a big hunkin' cast iron gear driven t case I would go 205.

Either way it's cool your out there doing this stuff ATV. The way I look at my factory 4:1 is I love the 4:1, it hasn't given me problems but I would like a 2wd version. It seems at some point something will go in with a 2wd option. If I was IFS I wouldn't care that I still had full time 4wd. I actually like it! It's just when you have locking hubs it's a piece of mind that you can be running 75mph down the road and causing zero wear and tear on everything past the wheel bearings.

I just saw a 241/241 doubler. They say the Np241 is stout and is usually the gears people use for a doubler in front of a 205. I'm not sure how a 241 would handle power that's already being multipled by another 241.

Lastly, wouldn't the ghetto way but it would still keep electronics happy is that you leave your encoder motor tied up and away and when you want to go into 4low you push the 4low button so the computer knows your in 4low then you manually shift the lever into low? This is assuming your VSS is already matched up and working
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
755
Location
Louisiana
I would think you could use a black box doubler in lieu of the adapter and still stack everything in there for any of the above discussed cases.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
755
Location
Louisiana
After some phone tag back and forth with Moser Engineering they are sending me my output shaft back because they said they can't cut my output shaft down. The fly head that they use to cut splines will hit the gear shell before I have hardly any splines on the shaft. According to post #124 of this thread, it seems like that's who cut the ones for aventr.

Anyone know how to contact him, maybe Instagram. I don't think he posts here anymore.

In the meantime I'm about to start finding a plan b on someone that can respline this shaft. Annoying.
 

RamRod

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,914
Location
AB, Canada
After some phone tag back and forth with Moser Engineering they are sending me my output shaft back because they said they can't cut my output shaft down. The fly head that they use to cut splines will hit the gear shell before I have hardly any splines on the shaft. According to post #124 of this thread, it seems like that's who cut the ones for aventr.

Anyone know how to contact him, maybe Instagram. I don't think he posts here anymore.

In the meantime I'm about to start finding a plan b on someone that can respline this shaft. Annoying.
Aww man that is annoying, I thought I read that Moser did it too... I will dig in my email see if I have his contact info

H3slate should have it since he bought his H3 when he switch to the H1

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
 
Top