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Bro of 06 H3 axle build

4speedfunk

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By "backlash gauge" I assume you mean a dial indicator? Some other tools you'll want:

*Magnetic base (for the dial indicator)
*Inch-pound gauge (for setting pinion pre-load)
*Housing spreader (for Dana 44s)
*Great big monkey wrench (for holding the yoke while torquing the crush-sleeve)
*Die marker (just to make sure)
*Hydraulic shop press
*Bearing plate

That is pretty much a complete set-up kit. Hard to justify buying all this unless you plan to do more than 5 or 6 of axles. I've managed to acquire most of this stuff over the years but, I still mooch and borrow from time to time. $150 seems like a fair price.
 
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06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Damn!

http://www.cornwelltools.com/webcat/products.php?product=OWJ22779-%2d-SIDE-BEARING-BACKLASH-GAUGE

yet I just searched dial indicator and for the same thing its like 100-200 bucks. Much more reasonable. I want a press but need more room....Either way the gears are installed and we are picking it up today. I will start to acquire tools so next time I can do a regear myself.

I also missed your previous post on the adjustable track bar bracket...Call TnT customs and they can ship one out to you.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Passenger side lower control arm mount is in. I will do the driver side at another time. Then shock mounts and C gussets...

Does anyone know where to go to have the axle inspected prior to installation? I want it inspected for bending. I used the precautions of welding 1 inch at a time and allowing time to cool but I am still paranoid and want to make sure the axle is still straight before it goes in. MaxPF you may know?
 

MaxPF

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Gearing and backspace do have an affect IMO. Backspacing is putting more leverage on the vehicles components and a 3.73 gear is less susceptible to breaking then a 5.13 due to tooth count

Can anyone correct me if I'm wrong?

You are correct. Excessive offset (less backspacing) puts more load on the ball joints, knuckles, and wheel bearings. As a general rule the knuckles are OK, and older axles with spindle-hub assemblies are OK, but ball joints do NOT like it, nor do unit bearing hubs. For that matter, the plastic bushing on the upper kingpin on kingpin Dana 60's don't like it either.

As for the gears, usually stock shafts and u-joints are the weak link, but with chromoly shafts and u-joints the R&P can become the weak point. As a rule, the lower the gear (higher numerically), the fewer pinion teeth, and the smaller and more fragile the pinion becomes. At the opposite end of the spectrum, taller (numerically lower) gears put more load on the inner pinion bearing (this was a real problem with 3.07 ratio D70s in early Cummins trucks), and they also put more overall stress on the pinion shaft, driveshaft u-joints, and t-case output shaft. Generally, as long as the gears are setup properly the 5.13's don't seem to have issues.

By "backlash gauge" I assume you mean a dial indicator? Some other tools you'll want:

*Magnetic base (for the dial indicator)
*Inch-pound gauge (for setting pinion pre-load)
*Housing spreader (for Dana 44s)
*Great big monkey wrench (for holding the yoke while torquing the crush-sleeve)
*Die marker (just to make sure)
*Hydraulic shop press
*Bearing plate

That is pretty much a complete set-up kit. Hard to justify buying all this unless you plan to do more than 5 or 6 of axles. I've managed to acquire most of this stuff over the years but, I still mooch and borrow from time to time. $150 seems like a fair price.

There are inexpensive dial indicators that are suitable for setting backlash. Search for the term "dial indicator" rather than "backlash gauge".

Another thing to add to 4speed's list is a decent set of bearing pullers.

Passenger side lower control arm mount is in. I will do the driver side at another time. Then shock mounts and C gussets...

Does anyone know where to go to have the axle inspected prior to installation? I want it inspected for bending. I used the precautions of welding 1 inch at a time and allowing time to cool but I am still paranoid and want to make sure the axle is still straight before it goes in. MaxPF you may know?

Not in CA. Sorry...
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Meridian, ID
thanks for all the info. Your like a walking 4x4 bible....Once you get that blazer up and running I gotta get a run in arizona in with you, crawler and alex.

Any way I can tell then? I highly doubt it but I am paranoid and dont want to put something in until I am 100% its good to go. Some say install the hubs and shafts and spin the wheels and check for wobble. Would that help at all?

Other then that we are in the home stretch. They recommend using an adjustable track bar and control arms with this truss but not sure if my brother will be able to buy all that at once. The main concern without adjustable control arms is pinion angle.
 

MaxPF

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thanks for all the info. Your like a walking 4x4 bible....

You're welcome! I certainly don't know everything, but what I do know I try to share and help guys out :thumbs:

Once you get that blazer up and running I gotta get a run in arizona in with you, crawler and alex.

You bet! I know Alex has been dying to run Pyeatt Draw :giggle:

Any way I can tell then? I highly doubt it but I am paranoid and dont want to put something in until I am 100% its good to go. Some say install the hubs and shafts and spin the wheels and check for wobble. Would that help at all?

Only if it is grossly bent. I got a slightly bent 14bff and I was still able to spin the hub on the bent side. Had I ran it it would have fatigued and broken the shaft in short order.

Anyway, if you have a laser pointer you can use it as a virtual straight edge by shooting it down the center of the tubes. Fixturing may be difficult without the ability to machine some aluminum pucks or something, but if you are creative you should be able to use it to determine if the axle is straight. Just imagine the beam is a solid rod and use it accordingly.

Other then that we are in the home stretch. They recommend using an adjustable track bar and control arms with this truss but not sure if my brother will be able to buy all that at once. The main concern without adjustable control arms is pinion angle.

The bigger concern is caster angle. The angle of the inner c's is fixed in relation to the pinion, so of course any adjustment in pinion angle will alter caster. Of the two, caster is more important.

Adjustable arms are nice, although you can fab some temporary "setup" arms out of cheap materials and ends and, after you have the axle set up and dialed in, make fixed arms of the same length. Same with the Panhard bar (track bar). Also, not sure what you are using for ends but I like the idea of using urethane mounts in at least one end of each link to minimize transmitted noise and vibration. Only drawback is slightly reduced articulation (assuming you are using spherical rod ends, aka Heims, on the other end). Whether it is desirable really depends on the end result expected. If this was an H3 I would use urethanes on one end simply because a fair degree of comfort and refinement is expected. A Jeep can go either way ;)
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Stock arms and stock trackbar. What's the chance of bending it? I did the sleeves first then the truss then LCAs. I didn't give as much wait time on the LCAs. Ill try the laser tip.

I'd do payet draw, Just bring the scorpion to tug me. :)
 

MaxPF

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Stock arms and stock trackbar. What's the chance of bending it? I did the sleeves first then the truss then LCAs. I didn't give as much wait time on the LCAs. Ill try the laser tip.

I suppose like anything it depends on how much of a beating it takes. Still, arms are easy to fab later if necessary, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I'd do payet draw, Just bring the scorpion to tug me. :)

What, you don't think a Cummins powered K5 will be able to drag you over stuff? ;)
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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I meant bending and warping from the welding

Yea you could drag me out too lol. I wonder how I would do. The biggest improvement is that the giant spring hangers were cut off and have nothing hanging below the axle
 

backcountryislife

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Dumont, CO
Chris, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you're trussing the LCA's? Why?

I've bent a rear, but never seen someone bend a front on the JK.. they seem pretty stout. Seems like you want to upgrade more for the flex than for the strength (though that never hurts)

I've got to find a rear LCA right now... put a pretty good ding in one a few weeks ago, driving home in the snow from Moab it was hard to miss :D
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Not the LCA but the LCA mount. They "taco" in and eventually rip off the axle. I've seen that happen to JKs XJs ZJs TJs eventually with time and tougher wheeling you risk ripping it off. So we welded on a beefier LCA mount with more surface area to weld to and an overall thicker mount. He's got plenty of flex already. He wants strength when upgrading to bigger tires and a locker because he had the D30. So this is going to be the most built factory d44 or that's the goal. I spoke to a JK owner the other day he spent 13k on his d60...no thanks we will build a 44
 

backcountryislife

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The rigs I see here with 30's and 44's... it's unreal what you can do IF you don't wheel like a moron. IMO there's very little need to go to a 60 unless you just NEED to bounce your way up features.
 

MaxPF

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The rigs I see here with 30's and 44's... it's unreal what you can do IF you don't wheel like a moron. IMO there's very little need to go to a 60 unless you just NEED to bounce your way up features.

Ehh, I have to disagree with you. D30s are very weak. The only reason people have success with large tires on a D30 is simply because of the terrain they wheel. Guys with D30's in Jeeps with 35's blow 'em up in rocks all the time. I'm not talking about gnarly bash-your-way-through rock gardens either - simple obstacles like 3' waterfalls will send 'em on their way (along with the common, ridiculously weak D35 rear axles tha most Jeeps have). You can go with bigger chromoly shafts and u-joints, but that just moves the weak point to the teensy 7-1/8" ring and ridiculously tiny pinion gear.

The main thing here is that for the money invested in upgrading a D30, you can put it into a D44 or 10b and have a much better axle. Of course, by the time you invest in chromo shafts and bling u-joints for a D44 or 10b, you can get into a D60 with stock shafts and it is still stronger. It gets to be about money and terrain to a large extent, but if you are going beyond 37" tires there is little reason NOT to do a D60.
 

backcountryislife

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Ehh, I have to disagree with you. D30s are very weak. The only reason people have success with large tires on a D30 is simply because of the terrain they wheel. Guys with D30's in Jeeps with 35's blow 'em up in rocks all the time. I'm not talking about gnarly bash-your-way-through rock gardens either - simple obstacles like 3' waterfalls will send 'em on their way (along with the common, ridiculously weak D35 rear axles tha most Jeeps have). You can go with bigger chromoly shafts and u-joints, but that just moves the weak point to the teensy 7-1/8" ring and ridiculously tiny pinion gear.

The main thing here is that for the money invested in upgrading a D30, you can put it into a D44 or 10b and have a much better axle. Of course, by the time you invest in chromo shafts and bling u-joints for a D44 or 10b, you can get into a D60 with stock shafts and it is still stronger. It gets to be about money and terrain to a large extent, but if you are going beyond 37" tires there is little reason NOT to do a D60.

The 30 is very similar to a 44 aside from ring gear size...

I know a few guys running 30's, and not breaking anything, but they wheel smart.

I wheel with this guy, who hits the hardest lines on the trail, still running a 30.

I've also got buddies with JK's with 35's on a 30 who wheel hard stuff. I'm not trying to say "you're wrong here"... by any means, but just saying that to make the absolute statement that they'll fail is just so dependent on style, just like how some have good luck with the H3 or an FJ, and some go through front diffs, and other issues. Got a buddy who's on diff #4 on his FJ... and another who has bigger tires & still on #1.

431575_3984603615568_2020660411_n.jpg




Either way, stoked to do some more work on my axles next year, right now I'm focusing on flex & getting the suspension to do what I want.
 

backcountryislife

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typical pirate bashing match... but some good info.

I'm not disagreeing with you about anything here really... simply that many people do & can wheel with 30's and 44's on hard terrain regularly without issues IF they wheel smart.

The 30, 44 both have weaknesses, but to say you NEED to upgrade instead of build is just not a realistic statement. I can point to a bunch of rigs I run with on hard terrain that are running what we would usually call "weak" axles... and it works for them.


My only point is that folks love to say "you've got to" about all sorts of stuff, but absolute statements like that are generally grossly inaccurate.
 

MaxPF

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OK, this reply is gonna be somewhat long. First off, let me start by saying that I understand your perspective. There is something to be said for running what you already have... in certain cases. However, having been heavily involved in one Jeep build, my K5 build, and involved in other people's projects ranging from full-size trucks to buggys, I have developed a certain perspective of my own. It helps to have made mistakes of your own, and seen other people's mistakes, along with the evolution of their builds. Axles are probably THE most commonly modified and/or swapped drivetrain components (excepting driveshafts). More so than engines, transmissions, and transfer cases. It seems inevitable that people will continually progress to larger and larger tires and more challenging wheeling. Not necessarily 44's and ridiculous rock-bashing trails, but certainly 37-38" tires and trails rated 7 out of 10 (were assuming the vehicle is also a DD, or at least driven to the trails here). Thus, even if your initial goals are more modest, it makes sense to build for the future right off the bat. My main sticking point comes down to this: what are you going to put your money into, how much are you going to spend, and what will you have when your done.

The argument to keep a D30 assumes you aren't EVER going to go to really big tires (40+") and/or wheel extreme trails. 40" on a D30 or D44 will be OK for light wheeling, but then why go to such large tires? So, lets acknowledge right away that going "big dog" is really D60 territory. Fro completeness, I will include the 60 in this discussion, even though I am focusing mostly on the D30 vs D44 and 10b.

NOTE: When I say D44, I am talking about TRUCK D44's. I AM NOT INCLUDING THE RUBICON/JK 44!!! The Rubi/JK 44 does have a 44 center and even better gears than a standard 44 (which can be upgraded, as i will explain below), but the tubes and outer components are still D30 parts, which are much weaker than standard "truck" D44's!!!

With that done, let's point out differences between each component:

Housing: The D30 pig is smaller and weaker than the others. Remember, this is basically a 1/4 ton axle. Due to it's construction the D30 suffers from a lot of ring gear deflection as the housing flexes. This is not only due to the normal deflection as the pinion tries to force the ring gear away under load, but also due to the axle tubes flexing the housing as the suspension cycles.

The D44 and 10b pig is much heavier, with heavier gussets between the tube bores and center section. Remember, these axles are designed for 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks, and have even been used in 1 ton service. As a result it flexes less, which equates to less chance of pinion breakage.

The D60 is used up to at least 1-1/4 ton, and it's pig is even heavier than the D44. This is just a natural consequence of designing an axle for a heavier load.

Axle Tubes: Here again, the D30 is a 1/4 ton axle, and it's tubes are smaller and thinner than it's bigger brother. The D30 is said to have a 2.5" diameter .250" wall tube, although some claim some axles may only be .188". Either way, plenty of guys have bent them, especially with larger tires and added weight. Many people don't realize how much weight a winch bumper and winch adds to a vehicle, nor how much extra load big tires add. Start crawling through gnarly terrain with big tires and a heavy front end, and you risk a smiling axle. Sure, you can truss it or gusset the inner C's, but it is still never going to be as strong or as rigid as it's bigger brothers. AGAIN, Rubi/JK D44's USE THE SAME THIN TUBES AS THE D30! Besides bending issues, hard wheeling can cause the tubes to crack and break where the link and/or track bar brackets are welded on:

154_1109_06+jk_front_fail+broken_housing.jpg


The D44 used 2.5" .500" wall (half inch!), 2.75" .500" wall, 3" .312" wall, and 3" .500" wall (D44HD) tubes. Which one you get depends on make and GVW rating. Even the "small" 2.5" D44 tubes are much stronger than any D30. The 3" tubes are strongest, with the 3" .500 wall being the strongest of all, of course. 10b fronts are all 3" .312 wall tubes, even on 3/4 tons - turned out the 1/2" wall tubes were unnecessary at this diameter. Anyway, the whole point here is that a truss is not really needed on a D44 or 10b, since the housings and tubes are much heavier. Welding the tubes to the pig with nickel rod (or other special alloy designed for cast iron) is never a bad idea though....

D60's tubes are typically 3.125" diameter .500" wall, although aftermarket 60's may be different. As with the 44 and 10b, welding the tubes to the pig is not a bad idea...

Inner C's, Knuckles, and Ball Joints: Dana 30 inner C's are known to bend (later ones - early CJ D30's are similar to D44 C's - might even be the same forgings). This is why gusseting kits are available. Outer knuckles - not sure. They don't seem to be an issue on D30's other than the unit bearings, which do not like big tires. OTOH, Reid Racing makes heavy duty replacement knuckles for the JK D30 and D44, so obviously people are breaking them and there is a market. Again, this is for later D30's - early stuff had spindle-hub setups and knuckles similar to (although lighter than) D44's. Finally, as with everything else on the D30, the ball joints are smaller and wear out quickly when big tires and heavy wheeling are mixed in. As mentioned, Rubi/JK 44's use the same outer components as the D30, and thus share the same weakness. Interestingly, Reid makes a conversion knuckle that lets you use Chevy and Jeep D44 outer components on a late model D30 or D44:

364442d1207853358-new-reid-racing-dana-30-rubicon-44-knuckles-knuckle-rotor.jpg


Unfortunately, this does not eliminate the other weaknesses of a D30, but it would be a worthwhile upgrade to a JK D44 for someone who wants to eliminate unit bearings and/or desires manual hub lockouts. Gussets on the inner C's and a truss or other reinforcement would still be needed...

Again, everything is beefier on a real D44. The inner C's never seem to have issues, even on heavy trucks. Ditto for the outer knuckles. These axles are all spindle-and-hub units, so no unit bearing issues. In fact, with proper care you may never need to replace wheel bearings. Ball joints are larger than the D30/JK44 stuff, but they still wear more rapidly with big tires and hard use. The use of high quality joints (i.e. Spicer Professional Grade) will reduce the number of ball joint changes. One large advantage of the truck D44s (and kingpin D60) is the ease of doing crossover steering and high steer, if desired. FWIW, 10b outers components, from the inner C's on, are identical to the same year Dana 44's. No 10b ever came with flat top right side knuckles, and neither did Dana 44's from the late 70's on, so anyone with one of these axles wanting to do crossover and/or high steer will either need to get a set of knuckles from an earlier D44 or get a new set of super-beefy knuckles from Reid Racing.

D60s.... yup, the stuff is stout. Interestingly, big tires, high steer, and hydro assist combined with hard wheeling is a recipe for knuckle breakage on the kingpin axles. The Ford knuckles are weaker than the Chevy and Dodge units, but all have been known to break. I have never seen a D44 knuckle break, even with hydro assist - probably because other parts break first. Fortunately, for both the standard D44 and the kingpin D60, Reid Racing makes super beefy replacements that DO NOT BREAK. They also make replacement inner C's for the kingpin D60, which sometimes get damaged by ridiculous abuse or failure to properly tighten a replacement upper kingpin. Crane, Dynatrac, and others also make D60 inner and outer components, including parts for ball-joint D60's. I'm not going to get into the whole kingpin vs ball-joint debate on D60's - kingpins are better: end of discussion :)

Continued
 

MaxPF

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Gears: This is simple math. The D30 has a 7.120" ring gear, the D44 and 10b have 8.5" ring gears, and the D60 has a 9.75" ring gear. Each has correspondingly larger pinions and larger bearings on both pinion and carrier. Interestingly, the 10b inner pinion bearing is as large as the D60's.

When it comes to gear upgrades, the poor D30 is left in the dust. Dana 44's have two upgrade options: For standard low-pinion (i.e. Chevy, Jeep) D44's, you can swap in the larger Rubi/JK D44 gears. The Rubi/JK D44's ring gear is larger, around 8.9" IIRC. Carl Jantz's Jana k4 kit allows you to install these larger, beefier gears into an older Dana 44 housing. For those using a high pinion D44 (Ford), Jantz makes a kit called the Jana 54, which allows you to install 9" diameter Dana 50 gears into a high pinion D44. Either mod gives a 44% strength increase, and makes it a match R&P-wise for the Rubi/JK D44. Ufortunately, no such upgrade is possible for the 10b, but since the 10b has a bigger pinion shaft, bigger inner pinion bearing, and a generally thicker ring gear, it is already stronger than a standard D44. Probably not as strong as an upgraded 44, but generally the shafts and u-joints are the limiting factor anyway.

Low pinion (Chevy, Dodge) Dana 60's are also upgradeable to larger R&P's. In this case, Carl's Jana 76 kit lets you swap 10.5" Dana 70 ring and pinion sets into a Dana 60 housing! This is the ultimate in D60 beef - to get better than this, you are talking a rare D70 front (which probably isn't any stronger), a custom 14b front, Dynatrac D80, or Rockwells.

Axles: Again, basic math. All these axles use the same spline pitch (24/48 pitch involute splines) for the inner shafts, so spline count is directly indicative of shaft diameter. The D30 is 27 spline, early 10b axles (up to 1987 or so) are 28 spline, the D44 and late 10b are 30 spline (different pressure angles though), the JK Rubicon D44 is 32 spline, and the D60 is 35 spline. Those are all inner shaft spline counts, btw. Older unit bearing D30's are dinky, later D30 and JK/Rubi D44's have fine pitch 32 spline outers (smaller than the 32 spline inners - about the same size as the standard D44's coarse 19 spline stub). Here you can see the difference between the earlier unit bearings and the later, larger D30/D44 unit bearings:

701617d1350139942-dana-30-vs-44-new-angle-32spljk.jpg


Continuing on, standard hub-and-spindle Dana 44's and 10b axles (as well as, IIRC, old CJ D30 axles) have coarse, non-involute 19 spline stubs, while Dana 60's have 30 spline stubs.

Shaft upgrades depend on which axle you have. The obvious upgrade is in material: shafts made out of 4340 or 300M chromoly are considerably stronger than a stock shaft for a givel spline count. However, increasing shaft diameter yields much larger increases - a stock 35 spline D60 shaft made from OE 1040 material will be stronger than a 30 spline chromoly shaft in a D44. Again, the aftermarket makes larger-than-stock shafts, which also requires a new carrier with correspondingly larger side gears. One good thing here is that the aftermarket large-spline upgrade shafts are also invariably made of chromoly, so you get a double strength bonus.

For the D30, the largest up-size shafts are 30 spline. Since they are made from chromoly, his makes them the same strength as stock-size D44 chromo shafts. It would not be worthwhile to go larger, since the weenie D30 R&P is already the weak link with 30 spline shafts. Stubs are the same size as stock. Earlier unit bearing D30's can increase stub strength by swapping to redrilled JK unit bearings and matching alloy stub shafts.

The D44 can go up to 35 spline, with a 33 spline intermediate option. Frankly, I don't think even the best aftermarket 1310 u-joint is a match for a 35 spline chromo shaft, but I could be wrong. OTOH, the carrier and shafts are going to cost the same either way, so you're better off going 35 spline... if you can. I say the last because if you have a D44 with 2.5" .500" wall tubes, you ain't gonna fit 35 spline shafts in there. The largest stubs that will fit through a D44 spindle are 30 spline, however it may be possible to machine a larger bore spindle to take a larger shaft, as is done with the D60. I'm not sure if this has ever been done. Since older D44's use hub locks, a compatible lock would be needed for whatever stub you use. Unfortunately, the aftermarket offers no options other than drive flanges, but this is fine since it is unlikely a D44 sized hub lock could handle the torque a 30 spline alloy shaft is capable of.

Dana 60's go up to 40 spline in the aftermarket, with 37 spline as an intermediate upgrade. ARB does not offer a 37 spline D60 locker, only a 40 spline. However, D70 carriers are available in both 37 and 40 spline, and combined with a Jana 76 upgrade would allow 37 spline shafts. 37 spline inners would normally be combined with 35 spline outers. If going larger, a custom spindle is required, at which point you may as well go 40 spline. Actually, I'd go 40 spline even if I wasn't immediately upgrading to larger outers - the outer upgrade can always be done at a later time. Since we're talking about outers, 35 spline is the largest that will fit through a stock bore. If you're using a GM or Dodge D60 stock shafts, a simple, inexpensive upgrade are stock Spicer D70 stubs. They are 35 spline, but otherwise identical in dimensions to common GM/Dodge D60 stub shafts. All that is needed are the shafts themselves and 35 spline hub locks or drive flanges. Warn makes a 35 spline hub lock which makes an excellent fuse - it blows up long before the shafts would give way. In fact, it blows up with less applied torque than the 30 spline Warn locks. The only lock option that seems to hold up are old, discontinued Spicer hub locks that have been broached to 35 spline. Otherwise, drive flanges are the final option. For 37 or 40 spline stubs, your only option is drive flanges.

U-joints on early D30's were pitiful, while later 30's (after the mid 90's or so) went to the same 1310 series joint as D44's, which is A Good Thing™. The latest incarnation of the JK Dana 44 has a 1330ish type u-joint, which is A Better Thing™. As usual, D60 stuff is biggest: the u-joint is a 1480 series, which dwarfs the 1310 and 1330ish.

U-joint upgrades are available, like everything else. The only upgrade for the early D30's is newer shafts with bigger joints. Spicer makes a stronger 1310 joint that is used in later D30's and D44's, which supersedes the earlier part. Beyond this, you are in the realm of spendy aftermarket U-joints from manufacturers like CTM are made from chromoly - 300M in the case of CTMs joints - and they lack the fragile needle bearings, using a bronze bushing or no bushing at all. CTMs, and presumably others as well, are available for D44, JK D44, D60, and even super 60 axles (which are 1550 series - big 'uns). Chromo needleless u-joints are pretty much mandatory when you go to chromo shafts, regardless of which axle you are using.

An alternative to regular chromo axles and u-joints are the CV shaft sets from RCV. They're spendy, although probably no more so than a complete set of good (i.e. Superior) chromoly axles and CTM u-joints. Whether they are better is up for debate.
 
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MaxPF

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OK, so now the main point I am trying to make. Lets say you throw a bigger set of tires on your D30-eqipped Jeep, go wheeling, and decide the front axle one-wheel-peel sucks. So,the obvious upgrade is a locker, right? Now, here is the deal: upgraded parts for a D30 and D44 are basically the same price. In fact, some parts such as lockers and R&P sets for the 60 aren't much more than a 30 or 44. The difference is, you have to swap in the 44 (or 60), while the 30 is already there.

So, now the question becomes: "Which is better in the long run, and if the 44 (or 60) is better, can I do the swap?" Well, certain manufacturers (Teraflex off the top of my head) make front axle bracket kits for this very purpose. All that is needed is a grinder (for fitting adjustments) and a welder. Granted, it is a PITA. You have to strip the housing, make careful measurements, tack parts in place, measure again, weld everything, clean it, paint, and assemble. However, assuming you have or can borrow the tools and you got an axle with the same gear ratio as your current one, the only real cost involved is the bracket kit (which you can carefully cut from the D30 if you want to be real cheap) and the locker that you were going to put in the D30 anyway. So, mostly we're talking extra time and labor. If you want to do it right, you will be changing ball joints, brake calipers, pads, and rotors in your donor axle, but depending on it's history the wheel bearings, diff internals, shafts, and joints should be useable as-is. If you want to keep using stock steering, all you are likely to need for steering parts is a tie rod and a couple ends (one regular, one with the hole for the drag link). There's another couple hundred. Once the brackets are welded on, the axle is assembled and painted, and you throw it in, you can run it as-is. If you break something, then you are upgrading parts on an axle that already has a strength advantage in every component (well, except the u-joints) over the D30.

This may not make as much sense at first, but consider the possible alternative: You have a TJ, and you throw an ARB in the D30 to eliminate the one-wheel-peel (you've already swapped a locked 8.8 in the rear, so you're golden there!). Boom, you break a u-joint and destroy the ears on the shafts, so you get a set of Superiors and CTMs. Everything is great, but now you really want to run 37's and do some harder trails. You get a brand new set of 37" KM2's, hit the rocks, and BANG! There goes another shaft. Superior warranties it, so you slam in the replacement and go wheeling. BOOM! There goes your R&P. What the heck, you wanted deeper gears anyway, right? You toss some 5.38's in both diffs, set the preload in the D30 tighter than crap to try and minimize deflection and keep the R&P alive. You hit another hard trail. No body damage, but this sucker has gnarly undercuts. No worries - you're easy on the throttle. You got the wheel cranked (no choice - it's the only line available), you wind it up against the converter a bit to get the front up over the undercut ledge, and BANG! There goes your long-side inner shaft! Luckily you have an ARB and tow straps - you limp it out, throw in a spare shaft (which, granted, is a heck of a lot easier with unit bearings, but it still sucks), and take the bypasses for the rest of the trip.

You notice on your way home that the Jeep wants to pull to the right a bit. Weird. Anyway, you get home, and after thinking about it, you decide you don't want to break shafts anymore. You call Superior and order 30 spline inner shafts, and immediately afterwards you call ARB and order 30 spline side gears. The stuff arrives, you throw it in, and hit the trails! No sooner do you get onto the obstacle when you hear the passenger side stub shaft detonate - you know, the one you stress fractured when your inner shaft let go. Only now, you're screwed. You just realize that your spare stock shaft is 27 spline, but your ARB has 30 spline side gears! Well, you have two choices: limp it home with a busted shaft, or swap the stock stub onto the intact chromo inner and take the bypasses.

The last was a trick: If you try to limp home with a busted stub you're wheel is gonna fall off and you will crash into a busload of kids going on a field trip. Why? Because an INTACT stub is needed to hold your TJ's unit bearing hub together. Without it, it risks separation because it was not designed to run without a properly torqued stub holding it together.

So, in reality your two choices are either remove the stub from your stock assembly and use it to hold your unit bearing together so you can limp home, or swap it into the Superior shaft so you can at least wheel the easy lines for the remainder of the day. Either way, you have to fix it when you get home. Luckily, you remember that MaxPF mentioned on Hummer4x4 that you can swap a JK unit bearing assembly onto the older D30, which lets you use the larger diameter stub shafts! So, after spending $500 (or more) on a set of JK unit bearings, and even more money on JK stubs (make sure you get the ones for the 1310 size u-joint, not the larger later ones!), you are back in business. No worries about breakage now, right. whoops! Wait a sec - when you are swapping unit bearings, you notice something funky with the inner C's... Its bent!!!! Dammit!!!!! So, you tear all teh outer parts off, press out the ball joints, get out the smoke wrench, a big-ass pipe, and a hammer, and straighten it up. Then you order a gusset kit, weld it on, put everything back together, and NOW your really back in business!!!

You hit the trails, and all is great. A few months later, you are wheeling, you drop out of your line, and get really bound up. Your buddy hooks a winch line to you, but even so you're gonna have to help get yourself out. Winch cable taut, you ease into the throttle, and BANG! CRUNCH! CRUNCH! GRIND! You realize you just grenaded your fragile little R&P. After an hour of work with a winch and hi-lift, you manage to limp out of the trail. Unfortunately, your axles spin all the time since you don't have hub locks that you can disconnect, so just as with your first R&P breakage, you end up on the back of a flat bed tow truck.

Now you realize you have hit a wall: There is no way to upgrade your D30's R&P. Once again, you have two choices: limit your wheeling to easier trails, or upgrade the entire axle. The latter option means you have to part it out, and at best you only recoup a fraction of what you have in it. Worse yet, you will have to spend all that money again on the new axle. Actually less, because you are not likely to break a R&P, nor will you need to upgrade unit bearings or buy a gusset kit for the inner C's. Also, on the bright side, the CTM u-joints will work in a D44 if that ends up being the upgrade path! And, you won't have to find another D30 to replace the one under your truck that has a nice smile :p



Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it! Actually, you will find a LOT of true stories just like that. Granted, plenty of people upgrade their 30 and it serves them well. At the same time, many end up upgrading it only to swap it out later, even though they don't do extreme wheeling. Axles are like money - nobody ever wishes they had less.
 
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4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
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Tardville
All true Max! I've seen D30s take some abuse for hours and hours and hours but, never with anything bigger than a 32" tire, and a 4.0L motor.

Getting back to the Control Arm thing...

One of my buddies (the diesel TJ project) just received some of the new Ballistic Fab johnny joints for his rear 4-link. NICE STUFF...way superior to the ones I'm running. Mine are the original style snap-ring units, and the new Ballistic jobs have a spanner plate so you can adjust for wear and preload. Best of all...they seem to accept and distribute the grease much better than mine. Definitely on my list of improvements. He and I have been having the same discussion about using a JJ on one end, and a Urethane bushing on the other. He has decided on that and I'll let you know how it works out. I think it would make for slightly less road-vides but, it could be a real PITA getting the control arm bolts installed. One big reason I like JJ's is you can be a little bit sloppy on your hole alignment, and still be able to get the bolt inserted.
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
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The dark side of the globe
All true Max! I've seen D30s take some abuse for hours and hours and hours but, never with anything bigger than a 32" tire, and a 4.0L motor.

Even with 32's and a 4.0, I still would not put a dime in a D30. If I was going to leave the front axle stock until it dies, that is one thing. But as soon as I started thinking about gears, lockers, or shafts? Forget it - swap time.

Todd's Jeep originally had a D30 front (with vacuum disconnects - even worse), D35 rear (nobody can seriously defend this sad little axle), and a blown-up 4.2. It got a 9.5" 14 bolt semi-floater rear with an E-locker and 4.56's and a 10b front axle with a 30 spline E-locker, Yukon 4340 shafts, and Yukon super joints. The first replacement engine was a Chevy 4.3L V6. Tires were 35's. In that trim the Jeep ran lots of mild to difficult trails. Here's pics of the most difficult - in the first pic you can see his front 10b axle:

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IMG_4750.JPG


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That trail is called "Axle Alley". Todd's built 10b weathered it just fine. Not sure I would've wanted to try it with a D30.....
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
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Meridian, ID
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pulling axles used to take me hours...now its too easy. lol

Could have the new one done tonight but Im tired from work so it will be finished in the AM. Then I can start focusing on my steering rack and t case.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,496
Location
Meridian, ID
Axle is in...finished it around 3 today but pist off. The caster is way off and my brother needs to buy adjustable LCAs or UCAs.

Me and my buddy told him not to jump on this deal back when he was looking at axles but he didn't listen. It was bare and came with a cluster**** of different brand mounts and a different brand truss, etc. basically all the **** should of been one company's stuff (I like artec) instead of all this random crap. It's just adding headache to the project. It will all be done and done right but it's just annoying when I have brackets with certain engineering goals to maintain ride quality or a certain purpose interfere with another part that works better with its own brand parts.

As you can tell I'm a bit mad
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
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Location
Tardville
Judging by your axle build earlier in this thread...I sort of thought that would be obvious. Adjustable control arms are just part of playing the game, especially when you're fabbing and modding at this level. Look on the bright side...you can buy them everywhere for Jeeps! Also...you don't really need them to be "adjustable" beyond the initial set-up. If you feel confident enough, you can simply take some measurements and make (or order) new fixed ones at the proper length. Having adjust-ability for future mods is nice, however. If you're like most of us...your rig is continually evolving and next year you'll be changing something else!

Oh yeah...one more thing. Hate to break it to you but, its probably gonna get worse. The same scenario applies to the track bar...its highly unlikely that your new axle has the track-bar mount in the same exact location as the stock one. So, you might have to bone up some additional $$ for an adjustable track-bar as well. There again...that's all typical jeep stuff, and they almost always require a track-bar change even for small lift kits.

Hang in there. Before long...you'll be done, and you can get back to working on Squeeky.
 
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