Custom rebuild and redesign of Humvee / H1

[Expendable]

View attachment 21547

How ugly is this hood? Anyone?

ah the BRV-O concept, notice the increased height, different control arms, wheels/tires besides the different hood.

The hood is pretty ugly though functional as it should allow vertical cooling stack instead of angled.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

I really like the BRV-O hood. The cut outs on the side of the bulge on the hood look mean but again it went to the same vertical cooling and I like the angled to keep the nose low as can be. I would think that if you did a very nice high end angled cooling system with pusher + puller fans you should be able to more than efficiently cool even the biggest 6.7's etc. I guess we will find out during testing but I am still a long ways off from having to fight with cooling issues etc. Right now body panel design is everything. With this super cold weather I am making up some small interior sample pieces inside my place. Continuing to learn Fusion 360 and Solidworks better to design out more accurate drilling locations.



The front almost looks like a cross, sending people to hell haha.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Hired a design firm to help me with the Solid Works drawings and scanning in panels. I would like to start making some better headway even over the winter when its too cold to setup molds etc.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Update and briefing for 2017:

I reached out to a law firm in order to see what hurdles or obstacles might come up with accelerating this build into a full fledged product of its own. No longer calling it an H1 rebuild and producing a brand / vehicle of my own. Part of why I am looking into this is due in part to the frame itself being created from scratch out of Carbon Fiber. From what I am being told, after you change it no longer can I register the vehicle as a 2000 Humvee. With this said I also have to think about cost, crash testing, engine / drive train licensing, market viability and emissions testing. The design firm that I have working with me is turning out some very cool concepts and in a few months I will be able to post them up for your viewing / voting pleasure. Short update, will edit and continue later.

 

[Paranormal]

Sounds $$$$$$. Just saw this on Ebay. Use it as FYI.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Hummer...c5acc8fc:g:SBEAAOSwEzxYY91U&item=222359767292

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Sounds $$$$$$. Just saw this on Ebay. Use it as FYI.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Hummer...c5acc8fc:g:SBEAAOSwEzxYY91U&item=222359767292

Anytime you want to start a vehicle manufacturing company from scratch the cost of entering the market place is high. (Barriers of Entry Econ Term) I believe that it is possible just look at Koenigsegg. Although they are making a super car the concept is there and pretty clear to what needs to happen. Look at the CCX one of the first Koenigsegg cars and it is easy to see the huge learning curve he has adapted to when you look at his current models. For me I look at why someone would want to own an H1? A majority of the H1 customers where business men that wanted something muscular, cool looking and ultimately portrayed an image they felt connected to. Feeling empowered when they got into it; much like a fantasy of playing solder as kids. When the flat bed came to drop off my POS X military Humvee that barely ran it didn't stop me from saying "now that is one tough beast". Right away it gave me the feeling of brute power. My re imagining of this with a new creation I want to take this feeling to the next level. Not only do you fell it's brutal power and strength but it actually can back it up. I have a prototype ultra skinny Dana 80 coming for the front and rear to see what modifications might need to be done to the frame ahead of time. Using so many light weight components it allows me to put strength and weight in areas without hurting the over all performance by much. This ultra skinny diff is actually an inch skinnier on each side than the factory H1's. This in effect gives the ability to run 1" longer shafts creating more travel while keeping the same overall foot print of the front / rear tires.

$350k for that truck seems pretty high but I am sure someone will purchase it in this world. My goal is for sure not to be that high; once you get to that kind of money I personally have huge expectations of what quality should be.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Anyone have a contact for brand new 2006 Alpha Helical cut portal hubs?

 

[3Hummers]

No idea. Might ask Dave Oberer at HummerPartsGuy.com. Not sure they are even available anymore.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

I also have an email into Axletech to see what they have as a bolt on solution but it might not work due to the brakes they put on the ends. Not sure how removable or special order they will do.

 

[atvspeed4]

I also have an email into Axletech to see what they have as a bolt on solution but it might not work due to the brakes they put on the ends. Not sure how removable or special order they will do.

We have been looking into building a totally custom vehicle for a few years now and went through a lot of the research you are doing now. I can tell you that the best route is to forget about including any component of a Hummer (except possibly one) in your design as it is old technology and weak design by today's standards. Come up with a body/ chassis design you like and then use pre certified modules for each major area of the vehicle.

Axletech has full bolt in suspension modules that have EVERYTHING already assembled. You can get ctis, lockers, limited slip and portals if you want as well. They already designed geometry, differential, brakes, ctis, packaging etc. Just order and bolt directly to your chassis.

https://www.axletech.com/en/products/suspensions-modules/2000-isas

Engine: You can get a full engine package with CARB # from GM for the supercharged LSA http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/e-rod-lsa.html

Wheels: Hutchinson DOT beadlocks

Lighting: Use either a factory assembly or an aftermarket DOT compliant option such as STARR etc and integrate into your body design

Windshield: If your design uses flat glass look at the heated windshields for H1 if you can find one as they are rare or design around another manufactures windshield

Dash: Either use an OEM option or I believe Haltech has a module that can connect to CAN and output via HDMI or VGA a fully custom displace to a LCD screen of your choice that you can embed into your dash like the new range rover sport dash cluster.

The devil is in the details with all of the little parts that make everything work such as interior lighting, power window assemblies, auto headlights etc and controlling everything via a custom BCM or other control system...

We gave up when we reached the body design and manufacturing point. Way too much $$ for small runs and then crash testing etc.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

This axletech setup is absolutely amazing but I do really like the brakes mounted on the inside like the H1.

We have been looking into building a totally custom vehicle for a few years now and went through a lot of the research you are doing now. I can tell you that the best route is to forget about including any component of a Hummer (except possibly one) in your design as it is old technology and weak design by today's standards. Come up with a body/ chassis design you like and then use pre certified modules for each major area of the vehicle.

Axletech has full bolt in suspension modules that have EVERYTHING already assembled. You can get ctis, lockers, limited slip and portals if you want as well. They already designed geometry, differential, brakes, ctis, packaging etc. Just order and bolt directly to your chassis.

https://www.axletech.com/en/products/suspensions-modules/2000-isas

Engine: You can get a full engine package with CARB # from GM for the supercharged LSA http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/e-rod-lsa.html

Wheels: Hutchinson DOT beadlocks

Lighting: Use either a factory assembly or an aftermarket DOT compliant option such as STARR etc and integrate into your body design

Windshield: If your design uses flat glass look at the heated windshields for H1 if you can find one as they are rare or design around another manufactures windshield

Dash: Either use an OEM option or I believe Haltech has a module that can connect to CAN and output via HDMI or VGA a fully custom displace to a LCD screen of your choice that you can embed into your dash like the new range rover sport dash cluster.

The devil is in the details with all of the little parts that make everything work such as interior lighting, power window assemblies, auto headlights etc and controlling everything via a custom BCM or other control system...

We gave up when we reached the body design and manufacturing point. Way too much $$ for small runs and then crash testing etc.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

After running into too many issues to count with the 6.5l trying to meet 2027 emissions standards I have decided to move to a Cummins power plant. I did not want to have to do this because there is a lot of re engineering of the motor mounts, exhaust location, cross members and placement of accessories. I am also finding that to create an exhaust system capable of meeting the 2027 emissions standards it will cost the same as the motor. For example: Custom Selective Catalytic Reduction for my 5.9l Cummins is $2768.40 on its own... I really hate the idea of always having to use an additive just to drive your vehicle but then again you do always put gas in.
Here is another thing to keep in mind: The first version of this engine put out 509hp and would have given an estimated average fuel economy of 24 mpg mainly due to the light weight but then after adding the emission reduction equipment the power output went down to 437hp and now with an estimated average fuel economy of 19 mpg. So what is worse? Less pollution but burn more fuel? Now to get back up to the performance figures I originally spec'd for this build the engine builder had to go up to a larger dual stage turbo 611hp setup. The nice part is this engine comes with a 10 year 100k warranty! Hows that for a high performance vehicle warranty.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Decided to go with Ultra Narrow Differentials with their portal hubs instead of the Axletech equipment. A little more custom work to be done but in the end I feel I am getting a better product for my application and far more customization. Imagine your H1 with 20" of wheel travel... oh yes the joy that would be.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

The world of gearing has been making me crazy lately. A lot of numbers in this update so bear with me and if you see a mistake let me know; I am still learning on this one. Keep in mind when looking at this the 6.7l is making 671 HP and 1200+ torque prior to tuning. So it doesn't take a lot of gearing to move such a light truck at guessing 4000-4500 lbs?

Dodge Ram 3500 Diesel has 3 different Diff options: 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10
- If you stick with the 4.10 for this example; you have a transfer case with a 1:1 High ratio and a final 6th gear ratio of .63:1 for the combined total of 2.583. When you look at tire size of 33" then you end up with about 1500-1700 RPM at 65 MPH. This is more ideal for towing not for fuel economy. If you don't plan on towing heavy loads go with the 3.42. My 2 cents.

Project truck code named C2519 for now:
- A 3.54 Diff gear with a 1.92:1 portal hub using an Allison 1000 transmission with a 6th gear ratio of .61:1 for the combined total of 4.146. This is minus the transfer case which I will get to shortly. When you look at the tire size of 37" you end up with 2400-2500 RPM at 65 MPH. This being way to high for a diesel engine who's max RPM is 3500 and peak torque at only 1450 RPM. In order to lower that final RPM range I have 3 options:
1.) Run 54" tires.... no thank you.
2.) Have Atlas custom make a transfer case with something like .87:1 High ratio and a 3.8:1 Low ratio bringing down the RPM's to 2100. Still pretty high IMO.
3.) Add an over drive to the transmission basically doubling my gears to 12 speeds with a 12th gear ratio of .305. Leaving the transfer case in standard 1:1 it would bring my RPM's down to 900 or so at 65 MPH. Much more ideal for cruising to your off road location.

 

[CaseyS]

Lots of weird information going on here.

1. So an engine builder is going to give you a 10yr warranty on a 1200 ft lb 600+ hp engine? That seems nuts.

2. In your first paragraph you referenced a 4000-4500 lb truck. What vehicle is this? I don't even think a regular cab canyon is less than 4000 lbs or so. A stock H1 comes in around 8-10k. My H3 is around 6 with only a 4 BT. That engine is 1100 lbs dry by itself.

3. Best cruise rpm economy will be around 1800-1900 rpm. Target 70 mph in this range for best economy.

4. You cant cruise at 900 rpm, at any speed. You will be lugging, and can't build any boost. Not good for your engine.

5 the inline 6 is a long engine. I assume you have checked your dimensions. Why this choice as opposed to a v8 layout?

6 isn't that why h1s had 2.7x differentials to deal with the portal axles and were then still somewhat top end limited?

7. With that much torque on tap I don't think any overdrive box will work. You are up into 3 speed brownie boxes or something suitable for medium duty trucks. Big and heavy duty stuff.

 

[3Hummers]

Am HMC2 comes in around 5800# in civilian trim. The military version he has likely weighs less.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Lots of weird information going on here.

1. So an engine builder is going to give you a 10yr warranty on a 1200 ft lb 600+ hp engine? That seems nuts.

Yes there are actually a few that will do it. Black's will do it for a small fee of course.

2. In your first paragraph you referenced a 4000-4500 lb truck. What vehicle is this? I don't even think a regular cab canyon is less than 4000 lbs or so. A stock H1 comes in around 8-10k. My H3 is around 6 with only a 4 BT. That engine is 1100 lbs dry by itself.

5200lbs is the 2 door humvee weight and with building an all forged Carbon Fiber body and structure I should have no problem reducing the weight by 1000lbs.

3. Best cruise rpm economy will be around 1800-1900 rpm. Target 70 mph in this range for best economy.

Thank you, this is very helpful information as never owned or modified a diesel prior to this 6.5l..

4. You cant cruise at 900 rpm, at any speed. You will be lugging, and can't build any boost. Not good for your engine.

5 the inline 6 is a long engine. I assume you have checked your dimensions. Why this choice as opposed to a v8 layout?

Yes with hiring a company to help with the frame redesign itself we have made accommodations for the dimensions of this engine.

6 isn't that why h1s had 2.7x differentials to deal with the portal axles and were then still somewhat top end limited?

Yes the H1 solves this exact issue by having a 2.73:1 diff with 1.92:1 hubs. Using an Ultra Narrow diff comes with negatives as well as positives. Negative is the 3.54 diff as the highest and 1.92:1 hubs.

7. With that much torque on tap I don't think any overdrive box will work. You are up into 3 speed brownie boxes or something suitable for medium duty trucks. Big and heavy duty stuff.[/QUOTE

You are correct, I reached out to a company that makes them today and not only is the torque an issue but the Allison 6 speed cannot adapt a 3rd overdrive. It already has 2. Two options left. Redesign the hubs to 1.5:1 with a costly $20k in engineering fees or continue to work with Atlas on doing a .87:1 transfer case. I think maybe a combination of the two would work well.

 

[Korby7]

I've seen some custom paint jobs where they left small accents of the fibers in the panels exposed. Looks cool and showcases the panels but also shows that they'll look great painted.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

I've seen some custom paint jobs where they left small accents of the fibers in the panels exposed. Looks cool and showcases the panels but also shows that they'll look great painted.

I am a big fan of this two tone paint job and raw clear coated carbon fiber. This matte finished white is one of the best finishes I have ever seen in person.

 

[CaseyS]

Gear vendors has what you need if you plan to use a common transfer case

https://www.gearvendors.com/4x4gm4s.html

They will not hold up to 1200 ft lbs though.

For the drive drain prices you are throwing around, banks can package what you need. The 630t will be 50 state legal and they are actively working on this power train for the military which could be a selling point. In a 5200 lb vehicle, I think your power goals are way overkill not to mention you have to overbuild the crap out of everything else to keep up. Even an Allison trans will be pushed over about 700 ft lbs.

How has performance handled this gearing issue? If they are limited to 3.54 gearing on the numerically low end, they are severely under geared with portal axles and any common transmission.

Anything than a 1:1 normal high transfer case ratio is not a simple device. The drive line components you have settled on result in a 6.78 final drive which any offroader can tell you is way too much for 37s. With a diesel and 37s you need to be between 4.0 to 4.4 or so.

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Gear vendors is who I already spoke with and they pointed out the two issues earlier; can't handle the torque and can't add a 3rd overdrive. The Allison 1000 already has 2x of them.

Performance handles this issue by running high RPM race motors (gas) that are not going to see the highway. Only short duration's during King of the Hammers etc. Mercedes Benz for their G 6x6 had this issue and they changed the transfer case to a .87:1 High gear so I thought that they must be on to something. They have limited the top speed to 100mph and this is the approach I would like to see.

 

[CaseyS]

You are going to need more overdrive than 0.87. Probably more like 0.7. Go to grimmjeeper.com and play with their gear ratio calculator.

For your final drive number that will be your aux overdrive x 3.54 x 1.92. Shoot for 1800-1900 at 70 mph if you will be running a cummins.

Try searching hone-o-drive. Or maybe talk to northwest fab to see if they could do an overdrive black box.

 

[Expendable]

The TD trucks got 2.56 ratio diffs whereas the gas and NA Diesel H1s got 2.73s. But doesn't really apply if you're not using the factory diff based on an amc diff.

 

[06 H3]

I'm a bit confused. Started out with a 6.5 TD, then duramax, then AMG, then Cummins then said you would use the 6.5TD but won't meet emissions in the future so instead your not gonna use that and now use the cummins? What happened to the rest of it.

The narrow diffs are still limited by frame rail width. A narrow diff can only do so much if the control arms are still short.

What is your ultimate goal? First you say a kit, then a vehicle that is its own deal not considered an H1. All this jumping back and for allows for little progress while things are sitting in pieces.

Find out your goal, racing? Putting around town? Off-road every once in a while? Daily driver? What is the goal...when you determine that goal you can pick parts that fit your needs to reach that goal. From there take the parts and run with it.

Stick to one project, you said you had an H3 carbon fiber hood, Currie axles for your H3. Then ditched $7k worth of axles to do something else, pick a project pick a goal, obtain parts to achieve the goal and aim for the goal

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

I am the first one to admit there is confusion but I am also sharing my thought process and although it may seem very chaotic there is method to the madness. I also have many personal issues that have come up that sometimes makes things like this a back seat. I got married this year, moved into a new place and now we have our first child on his way. With the H3 being apart still mainly due to horrible weather here in Chicago also it does not fit in my garage so I must work on it outside. (large cement parking area next to my garage). I needed something to get back and forth to work so I bought the Infiniti. My wife uses the 4Runner. The first attempt at making the H3 hood was a failure due to the garage being too cold even with my heater in there. The Epoxy didn't cure correctly. I then redid it in the spare bedroom that I am painting for the baby room but stunk up the house horrible. (wife was not laughing at this) I got the 1 side finished and it looks great. I can't keep doing it inside or my wife will kill me so I need the weather to get a little warmer so the garage heater can keep it at 70 degrees or warmer.

The H1 rebuild or whatever you want to call it has been in many directions mainly due to learning a lot and seeing so many possibilities. You are right though. I need to write a good game plan same as a business plan and get focused on completing something. Thank you for calling me back to reality 06 H3.