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Cylinder 2 misfire and valve leak

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Hi all, so I have read and read about the cylinder head problems and well I must of jinxed it because my local dealer says that's the problem. Before taking it to them I changed the plugs, cleaned the throttle body and MAF sensor and switched out the coils to make sure that wasn't the problem. I am always getting the P302 code. I was curious if anyone has had any good experience with just getting a machine shop to machine the correct cylinder or if I should just pay the money to get the whole thing replaced. Ive tried talking to GM and they won't do **** for me since I'm like the third owner. Could get a whole new head for 300 more then a machine shop around madison, wi can do it for. Thought by today would be helpful since im calling the dealership back today. Thanks in advance. :)

2006 hummer h3
Last six vin are 159,505.
 

08H3

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,367
Location
United States
Hi all, so I have read and read about the cylinder head problems and well I must of jinxed it because my local dealer says that's the problem. Before taking it to them I changed the plugs, cleaned the throttle body and MAF sensor and switched out the coils to make sure that wasn't the problem. I am always getting the P302 code. I was curious if anyone has had any good experience with just getting a machine shop to machine the correct cylinder or if I should just pay the money to get the whole thing replaced. Ive tried talking to GM and they won't do **** for me since I'm like the third owner. Could get a whole new head for 300 more then a machine shop around madison, wi can do it for. Thought by today would be helpful since im calling the dealership back today. Thanks in advance. :)

2006 hummer h3
Last six vin are 159,505.

For that little of a price difference, I'd just get the new head personally. Also, I really doubt that the reason GM won't do anything has to do with it being a third owner. If it's a 2006, you are out of warranty.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,492
Location
Meridian, ID
is the head a better version then the original? If so go with the new one from the dealer and dont settle for anything more then $1400 I would fight tooth and nail, people have gotten it done for less I was quoted at $2400 and got it for way less.
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
is the head a better version then the original? If so go with the new one from the dealer and don't settle for anything more then $1400 I would fight tooth and nail, people have gotten it done for less I was quoted at $2400 and got it for way less.

Yep, I have been fighting with them. Right when I call gm they ask for my name and issue number or w/e and it must say on the issue to only let me speak with maria and w/e I say she pretty much just blows it off and she goes back to the original offer of trading in the h3 and getting a $1500 certificate. Which I like the h3 to much to do that. Soon i'll be fighting with the dealership, which I didn't really wanna do.

Is it true the whole "goodwill" thing is gone and no longer active. Thanks all for the ideas and thoughts.
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,492
Location
Meridian, ID
thats such bull****! Trade in the H3 for one of our new piles of ****in **** thats fuel efficient...and a big ole :finger to GM is deserved.

Zach, can you chime in here? Is the goodwill deal gone? Have you gone to a dealer yet or just gone on the phone?
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,492
Location
Meridian, ID
From a profit standpoint "goodwill" just kills profit as it loses the company money so I do understand why they may get rid of it. Maybe service tech also took advantage of the goodwill deal and it hurt profits even more but at the same time I feel like if you **** up and have a known problem on a vehicle it should be covered.
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Yeah not to happy here either. The car is currently at the dealer and just sitting in the snow right now. I'm at the point of calling around to other places to see what they can do and talk it down that way. Wish me luck!
 

08H3

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,367
Location
United States
I'm not trying to be confrontational, so please don't get defensive, but what's the deal with so many people expecting GM (or any other company for that matter) to extend the warranties just for them? The truck had 36K Bumper to Bumper and 50K powertrain when you bought it. That fact wasn't hidden. If you didn't like the terms, you shouldn't have bought it. Likewise, if you're not happy with the build quality / reliability of it now, then don't buy another GM product. It just seems like a lot of people are trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Definitely see your point. I guess at this point I see people that are able to talk to gm and get something out of it. But I'm not sure if they still have warranty or extended warranty. It also kinda of baffles me that my h3 was made in October of 2005 and if I'm not mistaken the bulletin that came out about the issue was in April of 2005. But then I see that they update the bulletin and include h3's made after the first bulletin by including the specific Vin numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong about the bulletin dates. The whole thing about Chevy Colorado's getting the extended warranty because of the head issue also brings up the point how come hummers weren't included? But there are really good points people make like stating that all cars could have a problem such as this, or the warranty point.


#PIP3935D: Misfire At Idle Due To Leaking Intake Valves - Supplement To 07-06-01-011 - keywords 2.8L 3.5L compression controls cylinder driveability DTC engine excessive head high L52 LK5 leakage leakdown low - (Mar 18, 2008)


Subject: Misfire at Idle due to Leaking Intake Valves - Supplement to 07-06-01-011


Models: 2004-2005 Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon

2006 Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon

and Last 6 of VIN Less than 287698

2006 Hummer H3

and Last 6 of VIN Less than 287591

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This PI was superseded to update model years and engines, and to revise the repair recommendations. Please discard PIP3935C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
On rare occasions, a SES light and P0300 may be experienced due to a single cylinder misfire at idle that may or may not be felt. This may occur before the VIN breakpoints above due to non-uniform intake valve seat wear, which may prevent the intake valve from sealing properly. Vehicles built after these VIN breakpoints contain harder intake valve seats to address this concern. If the engine misfires occur off of idle, this PI does not apply. Bulletin 07-06-01-011 contains a labor operation and related tips for performing a cylinder leakage test to diagnose this concern but it does not indicate what repairs should be performed if a leaking intake valve is found.

Recommendation/Instructions:
If the SI diagnostics do not isolate a cause for this concern, refer to the latest version of 07-06-01-011 and the "Cylinder Leakage Test" procedure in SI to perform a cylinder leakage test. If a leaking intake valve is found, replace the cylinder head by following the latest version of 06-06-01-017, which contains the necessary replacement procedure and part numbers. If the vehicle is a 2006 model, install the latest PCM calibrations to complete the repair. The cylinder head received from GMSPO contains harder intake valve seats to address this concern.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,492
Location
Meridian, ID
I'm not trying to be confrontational, so please don't get defensive, but what's the deal with so many people expecting GM (or any other company for that matter) to extend the warranties just for them? The truck had 36K Bumper to Bumper and 50K powertrain when you bought it. That fact wasn't hidden. If you didn't like the terms, you shouldn't have bought it. Likewise, if you're not happy with the build quality / reliability of it now, then don't buy another GM product. It just seems like a lot of people are trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.

If its a known problem then it should be recalled and taken care of at no charge or a reduced price. I love Hummer and have a love/hate relationship with GM products. I used to love GM because at one point and time I felt their quality was great. The hummer has been nothing but good to me and thats why I am keeping it. When its time for a new vehicle (a daily driver) it may or may not be from GM. The reason I am not counting them out is because I am not a ford fan and dodge has its own issues. I think its been hit or miss with them. One time you get a good car the next you get a vehicle of problems. I cant even say I hate GM, I think its more frustration.

The real question is where do you draw the line? I think 08H3 brings up a good point there, where is the line? If they recalled the 06s in for a new head and replaced them all in one time period with a fix then there would be no reason for goodwill on issues. It would then be regular maintenance of a car. The customer service xdplayer received was bull****. We will give you a $1500 certificate and buy back your car, due to what??!?! A head issue which is known. I was in his shoes and how how he feels it sucks.
 

f5moab

Mr. Beretta
Messages
1,994
Location
In hiding.....
It was a common problem, but it was also a problem that was not going to happen to every H3 manufactured. Not all 06 H3's had the problem with the head. The reason the C/C was given an extended warranty was the strain on the motor was not as bad on the light C/C as it was on the heavy H3. And from the projections at GM; the majority of H3s would fail well within the mileage warranty period. Note, I said mileage period. Get one that is driven 8K a year and the engine might fail a year or two after the warranty.

As with any item you purchase, it will eventually fail. GM was pretty good about items that failed right after warranty ran out, ori if it failed within the years but not within the mileage (as with my radiator failure 5 months after the bumper to bumper ran out, but still under the 50K mileage part). But they usually will not cover a few years or thousands of miles out of warranty. That is true for all manufacturers from Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, all the way down to Tata.
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Soooo.... I got the head fixed and all. Then the dealer shop calls me back and says that they started it up and then another engine code popped up. This time for the crankshaft actuator!! I didn't want to replace the cylinder head myself but if I can easily replace this part I would like to. They said that after replacing the head sometimes the actuator just can't work with the new head and has issues. They said they see 1 out of 5 hummers after replacing the head have this problem. To replace this part is another 800 bucks!! So any ideas on how hard it is to replace myself? Thanks again.
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Yeah, i saw that writeup to and thought the same thing. And if it is that, im doing it! That writeup though is for the camshaft actuator solenoid. Isn't the reason they use the special tool for replacing the head though is to hold something and keep from having to take more parts off to replace the head. Could they have caused this to happen from not using the tool correctly? Thanks
 
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f5moab

Mr. Beretta
Messages
1,994
Location
In hiding.....
For cylinder head service there is a special tool that is designed to hold the timing chain in place when the cylinder head is removed. Prior to the special tool; GM's procedures for cylinder head paid almost 17 hours in labor time. The front axle had to be removed in order to remove the oil pan, and the oil pan had to be removed to access the lower front cover bolts. The special tool was designed and tested and is basically a wedge tool to hold the chain in place when it is removed from the camshafts.

One of the biggest problems the dealers have is not following the procedure and USING A NEW BOLT for the camshaft actuator and/or not correctly tightening the bolt. It is a torque to yield so that means "USE ONCE." and throw it away.

If you want the procedure for the replacement, I can send it to you; however, you do need the special tool for holding the chain in place. Basically two tools with hooks..hard to explain. Not the same tool as used for cylinder head service.

I will not say you can or cannot do it, since I do not know your level of experience, but it is not that hard of a job. You do have to take off the camshaft cover so that means removal of intake system, wires, plugs, etc.


OK, are we all talking the same animal here?
The Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve is as shown in the procedure from 355 nation (wherever that is). That is not an 800 dollar replacement.

However, is the dealer talking about the Camshaft Position Exhaust Actuator which is located on the end of the exhaust camshaft, under the camshaft cover, just behind the front cover? That I can see a dealer charging a few hundred to replace. (However, 800 sounds a bit high, I would say 400 plus parts.) The exhaust actuator is also the part the tech has a problem using a new bolt when installing and torquing correctly.

CamshaftPositionExhaustActuator_zps68f51eb3.jpg
 
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Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
After doing some research on schwarttzy's website with the manuals he posted. EXTREMELY HELPFUL, thanks to schwarttzy. http://schwarttzy.com/h3-hummer/ We are talking about the actual Camshaft Position Exhaust Actuator not the solenoid valve. I see I would need the special tool for holding the chain, so might not go that way. Reloader has also really helped me out here in madison.
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
So I called the shop and they gave me the code of P0017 I found a real nice write up on a different forum on it. P0017 - Crankshaft Position (CKP)-Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) Correlation. I never got this code before they changed out the head. So could it be related to the work they did on it? He did say he could "work" the price down to $600. Thanks
 

f5moab

Mr. Beretta
Messages
1,994
Location
In hiding.....
Yes. Here are the items that can cause the code:
A crankshaft balancer bolt that is not at the correct torque. Refer to Fastener Tightening Specifications.


• An incorrectly installed camshaft sensor


• An incorrectly installed crankshaft sensor


• An incorrectly installed camshaft actuator


• Incorrect valve timing


• A loose camshaft reluctor wheel


• A loose crankshaft reluctor wheel


• A mechanical cam actuator that is stuck in the full advance or retard position.


• A mechanical cam actuator that is slow to respond.


• Excessive crankshaft end play
 

Xdplayer

Member
Messages
18
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Thanks for the help f5moab. One last thing, I'm still stuck wondering why they said that sometimes the actuator just doesn't work with the head. Could this be possible? If it happens with this actuator how couldn't it happen with the new one?
 
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