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external link to H3 diesel swap build

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Yes, 58x reluctor wheel and the factory crank angle sensor. You can either make your own pickup wheel, or just buy the OEM 58x reluctor and make a spacer to fit it to your swapped crank pulley.

If you have any other questions, I'll be glad to help
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Well unfortunately I've uncovered my first major flaw in my buildup. I managed to kill my factory A/C compressor.

When I had the 4BT on the garage floor, I worked for weeks trying to figure out the best way to package the existing driven accessories. (Alternator and A/C compressor, the power steering pump is gear driven). I tried a couple of combinations of factory brackets and accessories and never got to an answer I liked. As much as I tried, I could not get the factory alternator to fit. It was a pad mount and the ears just did not fit where it needed to go. I ended up with a delco CS144 and made brackets to fit. In that design, I came up with a good place for the A/C compressor right above it. I was limited how high up I could position it due to hood space. I order to mount the compressor there, I would have to flip it upside down. My research ended there when I rationalized that the compressor is flowing gas, so it shouldn't matter the orientation of the ports. Well......the ports need to face up to prevent the oil from all draining out of the compressor. Needless to say I found this out the hard way. The compressor cylinders are all scored, and to boot, it pushed plenty of aluminum contamination into the condenser.

At this point I have the new condenser installed and caught my error before I installed the new compressor. Bad news is I now need to re-engineer the mount to flip the compressor. This puts the ports right on top which will be real close on hood clearance now. My hoses I had fabricated will now need to be reconfigured.

I have an idea on the direction to proceed. I will need to order some materials and redraw some things out. I'm leaving on vacation for a week next week, so it will be awhile before I can post some results.
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Ok,

Got the A/C working pretty good. Still have a few issues.

I ended up having to wire around the ECU in order to get the electrical side of things working. I used the A/C on signal from the dash to pull in a relay. This gets routed to a new hi/lo pressure switch that replaced the original transducer. The original transducer was a three wire sensor that sent a pressure to the ECU. The replacement threads into the same tap on the liquid line but is a two wire switch that opens under low or high pressure to protect the compressor. From the switch, the wire is spliced into the harness and pulls in the A/C clutch relay in the fuse box.

With the additional load on the serpentine belt, and the bad factory location of the tensioner, I get some belt squeal if I kick on the A/C right after the truck is started. If I wait a bit, it is fine. I think it is the combined A/C and alternator load that is causing the issue. I'm researching into a static belt tensioner that will hopefully fix the issues. The second issue is I don't think my fan works as well as the factory setup. I am using the factory shroud but can only fit a 17" fan since the hub is offset from the shroud centerline. I think I get some hot air refluxing through the condenser as the compressor will cycle when sitting in 96 weather in traffic. Going down the road, it works just fine. Cools great even with those outside temps.







 
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Ryan212

Well-Known Member
Messages
144
Location
Orlando
Why is the part number on that ac pressure switch. That sounds like it would solve my account issue on my diesel swap as well.

Thanks

Ryan
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Last edited:

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Just a little update. Here are my last two fillups.




19.27 gals on the first tank and 19.71 on the second. That's 830 miles on less than 40 gallons. Any of you guys have trouble making that on THREE tanks?

A big chunk of the mileage on these tanks was back road driving at 60-65 with some interstate at 70-75.
 
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CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
bonk

This is what has happened to my input shaft.



Who thought that drilling holes all through an input shaft is a good idea? Anyway, 2 1/2 miserable days later problem is fixed. Over 20 hours in labor.

BTW, transmission fluid is the most miserable substance invented by mankind. More to follow on this saga when I have the time to sit and write about it.
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
This is why I advise people to NOT use the 4L60 behind the 4BT. You're basically driving the transmission with a big impact wrench, and the 4L60 is marginal behind a gas engine.

Hopefully you used a hardened input shaft for the repair?
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
I'm kinda with you Max.

No, I picked up a standard replacement shaft, replaced the drum while I was at it and replaced all the frictions and steels while I had it open. This version has 35k miles since it was last opened up. The input shaft failure caused the overrun frictions to weld themselves to the steels. I had no reverse when I limped it home. Luckily a) I was only 2 miles from home when it happened and b) I didn't pull forward into any spot I wouldn't have been able to back out of.

When it comes to the H3, the 4BT and the 4L60e, it is somewhat a marriage of necessity, not of choice. I did quite a bit of research and each alternative has several drawbacks. Obviously the existing 4L60e has its inherent weaknesses behind a torque monster diesel. But it fits, the adapter is available, and the rest of the driveline remains stock. BIG plus. I looked seriously at just going to a 4L80e. The 80 is longer than the 60 which will be an interference with the fixed crossmember to the rear of the transfer case. The transmission crossmember would have to be fabbed, which is not a huge obstacle. The next major point would be to adapt a transfer case. Of course the H3 uses the most oddball transfer case on the planet. Electric shift, oddball 5 bolt interface, no standard or aftermarket availability of an input shaft in 32 spline to fit the 80, passenger drop - one of the few that drop on that side. In addition, even if you could get an adapter custom made, your are likely into the rear crossmember. Add driveshaft work and it all starts to add up into a major undertaking with several custom parts. Add to that now you either need to add cable shifters for your new (different) transfer case or find the electronic interface and integrate that somehow.

Now that adventr has some hard parts worked out for the 6L80e that may be a viable option. There are still some big obstacles. First, you would need to run a standalone box to interface to the onboard TCM in the trans. I think the aftermarket has that worked out. You will still need a HP tuners license and hardware to connect to the TCM to reset the shift points etc to fit the diesel so add that to the cost. Second, the front end interface will need some new hardware. The offset of the cummins to GM adapter mimic a genI/genII/LTx block. The dimensions for the LSx flywheel to bellhousing face are different. To get it to bolt up would require probably a new flexplate with the right offset and bolt circle. That would likely be another custom piece in addition to the output shaft and transfer case adapter.

So I agree with your impact wrench analogy, when the converter is locked. When unlocked the converter should take up a lot of that effect. When I regeared, I went with 4.10s instead of 3.73 for a few specific reasons. One of those was to keep the engine at the higher end of the efficiency band rather than lower in it. The thought process is the higher engine speed should keep some pump flow up and hopefully increase longevity. Right now I cruise at 70 at 2000 rpm on 35s. Ideally the 4BT would prefer to be about 200 RPM lower for max efficiency which 3.73s would have gotten me. Right now I lockup the converter in 4th at 55 mph which puts me around 1700 RPM. Once locked it will stay locked until under 50 MPH which is right at 1500 RPM. I think I am going to raise those limits to not be locked at such a low RPM where the engine has the ability to deliver almost full torque and beat on the input like that. This US shift controller is quite flexible in the gear shifting and line pressure, but doesn't have much option on the lockup controls. The lockup is at a fixed speed regardless of throttle position. Setting a lower TPS position for lockup works only to a certain point. When I am on the highway cruising at 70+, i want to be able to roll in the throttle on hills and overpasses to maintain speed without kicking out. However to do that I have the disengage/ do not engage set at 85% TPS. This means when I am merging on the freeway at 75% throttle, I will lockup when I get to 55 regardless.

I think US Shift has some updates out and I may look into them in the future to give some flexibility. I think staying away from the ability to go full torque, locked converter at low RPM will at least keep me out of a potential danger zone for now. Need to tweak my settings a bit more with the new knowledge.
 

MaxPF

AGNTSA
Messages
1,394
Location
The dark side of the globe
I'm kinda with you Max.

No, I picked up a standard replacement shaft, replaced the drum while I was at it and replaced all the frictions and steels while I had it open. This version has 35k miles since it was last opened up. The input shaft failure caused the overrun frictions to weld themselves to the steels. I had no reverse when I limped it home. Luckily a) I was only 2 miles from home when it happened and b) I didn't pull forward into any spot I wouldn't have been able to back out of.

When it comes to the H3, the 4BT and the 4L60e, it is somewhat a marriage of necessity, not of choice. I did quite a bit of research and each alternative has several drawbacks. Obviously the existing 4L60e has its inherent weaknesses behind a torque monster diesel. But it fits, the adapter is available, and the rest of the driveline remains stock. BIG plus. I looked seriously at just going to a 4L80e. The 80 is longer than the 60 which will be an interference with the fixed crossmember to the rear of the transfer case. The transmission crossmember would have to be fabbed, which is not a huge obstacle. The next major point would be to adapt a transfer case. Of course the H3 uses the most oddball transfer case on the planet. Electric shift, oddball 5 bolt interface, no standard or aftermarket availability of an input shaft in 32 spline to fit the 80, passenger drop - one of the few that drop on that side. In addition, even if you could get an adapter custom made, your are likely into the rear crossmember. Add driveshaft work and it all starts to add up into a major undertaking with several custom parts. Add to that now you either need to add cable shifters for your new (different) transfer case or find the electronic interface and integrate that somehow.

The 4L80E may be more doable than you think. A custom adapter would be relatively simple. Check this out:

r-DSCF3502.JPG


r-DSCF3503.JPG


r-DSCF3504.JPG


r-DSCF3508.JPG


I don't recall the exact numbers, but the total length of the 4L80E with that adapter and the NP241 ended up being shorter than the previous 4L60E with the stock transfer case adapter and 241 combo. It would be easy to make such an adapter with a 5 hole pattern.

You also would not need a 32 spline input for the t-case. Advance adapters and others make a 27 spline output shaft for the TH400/4L80E.

Just something to keep in mind for next time...


Now that adventr has some hard parts worked out for the 6L80e that may be a viable option. There are still some big obstacles. First, you would need to run a standalone box to interface to the onboard TCM in the trans. I think the aftermarket has that worked out. You will still need a HP tuners license and hardware to connect to the TCM to reset the shift points etc to fit the diesel so add that to the cost. Second, the front end interface will need some new hardware. The offset of the cummins to GM adapter mimic a genI/genII/LTx block. The dimensions for the LSx flywheel to bellhousing face are different. To get it to bolt up would require probably a new flexplate with the right offset and bolt circle. That would likely be another custom piece in addition to the output shaft and transfer case adapter.

The 4L80E has proven to be more durable than the 6L80E/6L90E. This isn't to say the the 6L's are a bad transmission, but the 4L80/85 seems to be more rugged and durable. If I were to run a 6 speed behind a 4BT I would choose an Allison before i ever considered a 6L80 or 6L90.

So I agree with your impact wrench analogy, when the converter is locked. When unlocked the converter should take up a lot of that effect. When I regeared, I went with 4.10s instead of 3.73 for a few specific reasons. One of those was to keep the engine at the higher end of the efficiency band rather than lower in it. The thought process is the higher engine speed should keep some pump flow up and hopefully increase longevity. Right now I cruise at 70 at 2000 rpm on 35s. Ideally the 4BT would prefer to be about 200 RPM lower for max efficiency which 3.73s would have gotten me. Right now I lockup the converter in 4th at 55 mph which puts me around 1700 RPM. Once locked it will stay locked until under 50 MPH which is right at 1500 RPM.

You and i have very similar gearing. I'm running an NV4500, 4.10's, and 35's, I turn 1770RPM at 60MPH and 2060RPM at 70MPH. I've been debating staying with 35's and re-gearing to 3.73, or keeping the 4.10's and running 37" tires. I notice a considerable mileage drop if I run 70 vs 60mph. I think if you were to switch to a 4L80E you would probably want to eventually re-gear to 3.73's. Or run 37's :)
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Worked on some exhaust fabrication this weekend. I've been running a 2.5" downpipe stabbed into the factory exhaust from the very beginning when I got this on the road. Its given me 50k happy miles.

The firewall clearance is real tight coming out of the turbo. I'm running a low mount turbo and there are several different ways to mount it. Packaging is real tight and ac is a must so a high mount turbo is out of the question. I am using a tight radius 3" elbow out of the turbo and can't fit my finger between the exhaust and the firewall. From there it kicks 25 degrees and then a 90 that was chopped down to about 70 degrees to head along the torsion bar. Clearance is pretty tight is this area too between the frame and torsion bar. I installed a v band flange here to make it easy to pull the down pipe if needed. Back from there I used two 45s to roll up and over the torsion bar and mated this up to the existing flange. This is temporary and when I get the time I'll work from this point back to finish the job. I'll likely add a v band flange here too to keep the midpipe separate since this worked pretty well getting the parts in and out if I ever need to.

Downpipe and midpipe



New midpipe next to the old one. This should flow a little better.


I wrapped the downpipe and the midpipe where it passes near the transfer case encoder motor.


Downpipe showing the tight clearance


Midpipe rolling over the torsion bar. Plenty of room for 3"
 

CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
752
Location
Louisiana
Couple of updates. CJ I think I finally got the oil pan leak sealed. I drained the oil and let it sit overnight. There were two visible cracks again. I slathered both cracks with some jb quick and let that set all afternoon. After the 6 hour cure time I came back and smeared the area with silicone. Its a total crap hack job but its what can be done with the pan on the engine, and it looks like it worked. The trick was draining the oil and not letting that contaminate the job weld before it set.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed that the drivers upper ball joint was shot. This was a dorman replacement that lasted about 50k. So today I replaced that and at the same time replaced brake rotors and pads and rotated the tires.

I ordered R1 concepts rotors and pads from amazon. All four rotors and pads for $188 prime to my door. I think this is a smoking deal. The rotors look to be good quality and same with the pads. I still had good life on my old pads as they had all been done about 50k ago, but I had at least one warped rotor. I could feel the brakes pulse as I came to stops in traffic. I honestly can't remember if these are the original rotors or not, but this is like my fourth or fifth brake job over 330k miles. Not too bad I guess.



 

bigwilliedw01

Active Member
Messages
42
Location
US
If you've never used drilled/slotted rotors, you're prob not gonna like em. They make a lot of noise while driving...

Sent from my SM-J700H using Tapatalk
 

GreatDaneHummer

Well-Known Member
Messages
994
Location
Chicago
I love and hate R1 rotors / pads. I bought the same ones and have had to replace them 3 times in 50k miles due to extreme warping and odd wear from the pads. Love, because I sent them pictures and showed the measurements of how warped they became very quickly and they sent me brand new ones no real push back from them. I think part of the issue is getting mud caked inside the holes drilled and they never seem to clean out well enough with washing.
 

Kyle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Clarita, CA
I still have my stock rotors, but upgraded to semi metallic race pads, the really help slow these beasts down!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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