Half-shaft c-clip and broken diff

[Flash]

$2,100.00?

The case could be bad. Don't trust that it's OK.

OK. Now the educational part.
What should I have done at the time the noise began and I pulled off the road?
Is this preventable via some maintainence schedule?
Was the "C" clip breaking due to Michigan winters and salt? or offroad abuse? or simply coincidence? (the mrs. thinks it was my offroading and I think it coincidence :no
Untill I get the broken pieces - it is somewhat speculation.
Any other thoughts at large regarding this event for any others out there yet to experience it?
Was there a way to reseat it into the carrier?
When changing a half shaft on the trail, do you have to drop the front differential?
If not, then why all the labor here? Because the damage to the carrier?
Forgive the newbie questions - Half shaft trail breakage - is that like this or something completely different?

 

[auggie mathis]

Here in houston we have had several early 2006 modles that have had the clip come off and cause the shaft to move around and tear up the case the case. always on tha passagener side

 

[bebe]

What should I have done at the time the noise began and I pulled off the road? {?} I don't understand the question

Is this preventable via some maintainence schedule? C-clip failures? No, Maintenance has nothing to do with it.

Was the "C" clip breaking due to Michigan winters and salt? or offroad abuse? or simply coincidence? (the mrs. thinks it was my offroading and I think it coincidence :no The most frequent reason is over extending travel of the CV....so the Mrs. is likely correct.

Untill I get the broken pieces - it is somewhat speculation. Yep - forensics will tell you everything.

Any other thoughts at large regarding this event for any others out there yet to experience it?

Was there a way to reseat it into the carrier? Maybe. If it wasn't damaged.

When changing a half shaft on the trail, do you have to drop the front differential? No - the C-clip has a wide enough gap it can be pulled from the center section, and when re-installing, "snapped" back in.

If not, then why all the labor here? Because the damage to the carrier? It takes literally 1 hour to pull and drop in a new carrier. 2 hours start to finish. Not sure what they are planning on doing, but you could buy the complete axle and drop it in yourself. (That's something even "I" could do).:giggle:

Forgive the newbie questions - Half shaft trail breakage - is that like this or something completely different? Same.



Halfshafts break for a couple of reasons. Impact and over-extension.

Over extension can happen during both up travel and down travel. The more speed involved increases the chances of over-extension. This probably the reason more folks break front end stuff in mud/dirt/wet situations vs rock/moab situations.

The reason the half shafts were changed was because they added a bit of length to them. IIRC the engineers told me 3/8", this helped reduce the issues with over-extension pulling the shafts out of position.

There is a certain amount of plunge type movement in the CV Joints, both inner and outer. You can google 'rezeppa style cv' to get an idea what is under the boots. H1's and H2's have rezeppas on one end (outer) and tripots (tripods) on the inner. H3's have rezeppa's on both inner and outer. This is why the H3 has more travel than the H2 and H1, but with the choice of GM to use such a small ,weak, aluminum center section, it made the front diff of the H3 a major failure point.

I would go as far to say that it was a decision that was so obviously wrong, they worked to improve almost immediately, and had the brand not died, may have been completely resolved within a couple model years.

 

[Flash]

$2,100.00?

Total is coming to $2800 with GM picking up $2200 on their "Goodwill Warranty" process. I'm elated as I am a full 2 years out of warranty. Truck should be done tomorrow. I'm stopping by tonight to get pics of the parts.

 

[alrock]

That sounds like a good deal.

 

[bebe]

Hopefully you will be getting the Cast Iron replacement with the 4:56 gears installed?

 

[Flash]

Hopefully you will be getting the Cast Iron replacement with the 4:56 gears installed?

No.

Until I saw the parts tonight I thought the front differrential was more like a Jeep front axle assembly. Should have known better but I didn't. Seeing the parts tonight it became clear that the front differential was the small center housing and everything else was bolt up to that. Anyway, very little damage in my view to either the carrier hub or the half shaft spline - but due to the warranty coverage, I can't keep the parts.

Not sure of the break down yet on costs (parts/labor). Should have that tomorrow when the truck is done. New redesigned half shaft, new carrier, same aluminum housing, new bearings/seals/fluid/ etc.

Pics from tonight up top.

 

[Doc Olds]

The "C" clip does not have to fail for the shaft to be pulled out of the differential. An over extension can possibly pull the shaft out with a new snap ring. If the snap ring does fail, there would be nothing retaining the shaft in the axle tube mount bracket and eventually suspension movement will result in the half-shaft compressing beyond the point where the splines are meshed and ..... very interesting when the spline try to meet again.

When you replace a half-shaft, in the tear down, all you have to do is make a quick firm pull straight out and the shaft will pull out of the diff axle tube (passenger side). When install the replacement you push the inner end into the diff axle tube with the splines lined up until you hear the C clip "click" indicating it is in position at the proper depth, give it a little wiggle to make sure it is gripped by the snap ring, and good to go.

The 08 Alpha (09+) half-shafts are definitely longer that the early versions and beefier as well.

Good luck Flash, sounds like it is working out.

 

[Doc Olds]

Found this link via Google about this discussion/problem/fix. Its from "X" so if it can't be posted here - please remove - and my apologies.
http://www.hummerxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9864

posted by phazer42 "PN 10374204 was changed due to an insertion issue that would sometimes arise into the differential. It was supposed to break point sometime around January 2006 to PN 15905106

The PN 15905106 was changed to PN 15886012 with an implementation of November 2006. This change was to increase the shaft bar length to 341mm and increase the shaft diameter between the boots to 28.6mm. The inboard joint also changed (was increased) due to off-road warranty issues."

So does anybody know the correct overall compressed length of the new shaft??? 24 13/16" or 630.24MM?????

 

[Hunner]

Explain "compressed" you mean like shoved in as far as it will go? I don't know that, did not think to measure when I had it apart. OEM specs will allow aprox 23 degrees droop in the front suspension until the OEM tie rod bind, best I could measure. My set up "could" droop 30 degrees without the BP tie rods binding, but I don't think it can because of the metal stop on the frame. Can't find the last notes when I checked that.
I have several here I can measure just laying on the floor. Somewhere I have a MM tape?
Here is my "tecnakle" device for at least an idea of the Alpha CV at least this is supposed to be one. That will at least get us started on the difference. Maybe Flash could measure the old one before they send it back.
This one looks like just about, nearly almost close to 26 1/2 inches on my calibrated metal measuring instrument.

 

[bebe]

I think you guys are missing the point....the last half shaft change (2009) is what all shafts will be going forward. The engineers said it was 3/8's of an inch longer. If you go on Napa or O'Reilly's website it will give you the measurements, but the point is it doesn't matter.

All new shafts are now longer, it's just like trying to find 14mm tie rods.

As I posted earlier.....

Found this link via Google about this discussion/problem/fix. Its from "X" so if it can't be posted here - please remove - and my apologies.
http://www.hummerxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9864

posted by F5 "Part Number history of shaft...
Manufacturing part number was originally 10374204 for start of production. Then went to 15905106 on September 1, 2006."

The rest of the story:

When the Alpha was released the service part number went to the current number 15886012 and has not changed since. No explanation as to why, but I will assume it was either for the Alpha that will service all as I explained earlier.

 

[Doc Olds]

I think you are making an "assumption". :giggle:

You are not taking into account new old stock. I realize that all new shafts manufactured 2009 and after will be longer and beefier, but the added length came before the beefy shafts. So.... when you go to Po Dunk GM dealer (former Hummer or not,) and Mr. Po Dunk just happens to have an H3 half-shaft on his shelf an old shaft PN 15905106 but brand new, and you give him PN 15886012, his system will tell him the old shaft is compatible with the new part number, and I do not want to buy an old short shaft and thereby "get the shaft." :no:

I found some what I think are the old shorter shafts at a certain un-named location (new but no tags, labels or boxes) that are going to go to auction next year unless somebody cleans them out, and if I know what the current shaft compressed length is, I can see if they are the schnizzle or just the fizzle. I do not want to drool all over them and tip my hand to the seller.

 

[Hunner]

What was the point? I was just providing the length of the Alpha shaft for reference as inquiring people wanted to know. Now if some one actually had an older one we might confirm the length of the older ones. It would just be knowledge some of us could learn from in our never ending quest for the facts, not just to prove a point. I'm finding out a lot of things are listed or stated one way or the other but having the real thing sometimes is different.
Like Doc says it might save some one from unknowingly getting the short shaft!
So, Doc will we see you on an episode of storage wars??

 

[Doc Olds]

Explain "compressed" you mean like shoved in as far as it will go?

I have several here I can measure just laying on the floor. Somewhere I have a MM tape?

Here is my "tecnakle" device for at least an idea of the Alpha CV at least this is supposed to be one. That will at least get us started on the difference. Maybe Flash could measure the old one before they send it back.
This one looks like just about, nearly almost close to 26 1/2 inches on my calibrated metal measuring instrument.

Yes Sir, pushed together as far as it will go (its shortest possible length).

For those inquiring minds: The inner joint (tri-pod assembly/joint) is completely flexible AND moves with an in and out motion. The outer joint (CV joint) is also flexible, but cannot move in and out. What I am looking for is the total axle shaft length with the tri-pod inner end fully compressed in.

 

[Hunner]

I'm going to have to figure out a way to do that. EDIT I did. As it lays I could compress it to 25 1/2 but I also found I could pull it out to 27. It returns to about 26 1/2 on it's own. I will try to check that again with some help holding things.
If the change was introduced for the Alpha but did not come out until 2009, I wonder how my 2008 Alpha ended up with some?
There must be some info we don't have on the dates.
It's this long at full droop with everything disconnected and did not fall out, as the clip was holding it.:whaa:

 

[Flash]

Much appreciate the discussions. Learning quite a bit. One question on the overextension...I can understand overextending on Drummond - but that was in August. Why the failure now? And why just driving down the e-way?

Update - GM did cover the parts and labor for the Shaft (#15889612), Case (#12479242), Bearings (#9420095), Seal (#15286593) and Gear Lube (#89021677). I did have to pay a $100 deductable and about $20 for supplies. It was time for an oil change and tire rotation any so I had them do that as well. I also got a discount on the rental - saving another $85.

There is a letter that went out to the dealerships last July encouraging them to use set aside funds for "Customer Aftercare" for items specifically out of warranty (like this) and that can improve community relations with some loyal drivers. I will not post the letter here - but if someone needs a copy to try and offsett some costs as I did, send me an email.

Flash