If You Were To Get A Diesel Truck?

[Hunner]

Do the 350 and 250 have the same engines and tranny??

 

[mudbug]

250 and 350 have the same engines just like the dodges.
I can't say for sure but I heard some people are not happy with the new cummins it doesn't get the fuel mileage but it does run better than the 5.9 and now for 2013 cummins is suppose to get urea injection added to it.
I love my 06 mega common rail even though it is in the shop right know getting a new clutch and trans put in it I average about 18mpgs hwy/city driving thats if I keep my foot off the throttle and with 36s and computer tune to tow mode.
If I was to get a new diesel which I have been looking I think I would get a 2012 before dodge adds the urea unless you get a cab and chassis which is already installed.
The only problem with ford is the engine is really new and since the 7.3 ford has been through 3 different engines and 2 did not hold up very well but I don't know to much about fords new diesel engine.

 

[atvspeed4]

Very good friends of our family just bought a 2012 Gmc denali 3500 HD dually to pull their 16,000 LBS 5th wheel camper. He ended up using it as his commuter too. I didn't believe him until I saw it but he regularly gets 21 MPG empty. With the camper on the back he did drop down to 15 mpg though.

 

[HUMMER INVESTMENTS]

Very good friends of our family just bought a 2012 Gmc denali 3500 HD dually to pull their 16,000 LBS 5th wheel camper. He ended up using it as his commuter too. I didn't believe him until I saw it but he regularly gets 21 MPG empty. With the camper on the back he did drop down to 15 mpg though.

Does he have some type of tune? The best I get in teh LBZ Dmax is 18 empty on the highway, 10-12 loaded down.

 

[atvspeed4]

No tune in it, he wants it to be completely stock LML. The 2010 duramax (LMM) my neighbor has gets terrible mpg about 9-12. They figured out all the emissions with the latest truck. Some day Ill have one...$$$

Also this is my pick:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/20/trident-diesel-sports-car-not-vaporware-still-sounds-too-good-t/

 

[HUMMER INVESTMENTS]

No tune in it, he wants it to be completely stock LML. The 2010 duramax (LMM) my neighbor has gets terrible mpg about 9-12. They figured out all the emissions with the latest truck. Some day Ill have one...$$$

Also this is my pick:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/20/trident-diesel-sports-car-not-vaporware-still-sounds-too-good-t/

Interesting. Thats really good mpg.

 

[4speedfunk]

Just last week, I was doing some suspension work and during a test drive I pulled into my local fire-department to turn around. A fireman came runnning out and said that he loved the SAS, and wanted me to look at his project. He had a later model Ford F-350...quad cab, 4x4, fleetside. He told me he just got done swapping a Cummins diesel into it! He went on to say the Ford Power-Joke diesel is a total POS, and that his swap was fairly routine among Ford guys.

We discussed swapping an oil-burner into the H3. He suggested the Cummins "B-series"...apparently its a small 4-cyl diesel that comes in Fed-Ex, UPS, and other box-van type delivery trucks. I know nothing about diesels but, I am intrigued by the idea. He said his Cummins bangs out 24mpg in a gigantic 3500 4-door Ford chassis. That's pretty impressive.

 

[Tractordoll]

I know I have only had my Ram for just 2 days, but I have already managed to put 200 miles on it in just those 3 days. Total fuel consumption, a little over 1/4 tank. As it stands as of this morning, from new, the average mpg is around 20.5. On the bottom of the screen, there is a graphical display of instant MPG and I noticed when I was on the highway yesterday that the instant MPG stays steady at around 25-26mpg when I set the cruise control at 65. Where this truck is going to suck is city driving. I saw the instant MPG gauge dropping below 10. It's definitely not a stop and go vehicle, but that isn't going to be an issue for me during a daily commute unless there is the huge Hartford traffic jams to drive through.

 

[Mb30sdl]

I got 08 f-350 DW in stock I was getting ~17-19 at 55mph, with lift and bigger tires ~12

 

[MaxPF]

Just last week, I was doing some suspension work and during a test drive I pulled into my local fire-department to turn around. A fireman came runnning out and said that he loved the SAS, and wanted me to look at his project. He had a later model Ford F-350...quad cab, 4x4, fleetside. He told me he just got done swapping a Cummins diesel into it! He went on to say the Ford Power-Joke diesel is a total POS, and that his swap was fairly routine among Ford guys.

We discussed swapping an oil-burner into the H3. He suggested the Cummins "B-series"...apparently its a small 4-cyl diesel that comes in Fed-Ex, UPS, and other box-van type delivery trucks. I know nothing about diesels but, I am intrigued by the idea. He said his Cummins bangs out 24mpg in a gigantic 3500 4-door Ford chassis. That's pretty impressive.

4BT's are mechanically injected 4 cylinder engines with front gear trains. They are nothing but a 5.9L 6BT with 2 less cylinders. Stock they had max ratings of 130HP, but just like their 6 cylinder counterparts it is ridiculously easy to double or triple the power of these engines. Newer replacements are the ISB3.9 and ISB4.5. These are common rail versions of the 5.9 and 6.7 respectively. Typical ratings are 170HP and 400lb-ft torque, in South America Ford offered the F-250 with an ISB3.9 rated at 200HP and 420lb-ft. Here's a pic of a Common rail ISB3.9:

Here is the mechanically injected 3.9L 4BT:

This engine is mated to a 4L60 trans:

Accessories. Note that you only see an alternator and AC compressor. That is because the power steering pump is driven off of the gear train (not visible in this pic):

So far I have never found a Cummins swap in an H3, but they are common in Jeeps, Here's a TJ with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;PD0irqW_rhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD0irqW_rhA[/video]

Here's a 4-door JK with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;SqvcVThzRfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqvcVThzRfQ[/video]

CJ-7 with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;5uG_Og24S68]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uG_Og24S68[/video]

JK with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;aLtj5qZkK8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtj5qZkK8M[/video]

The above JK in Moab. Note that someone screwed the pooch with fueling on this 4BT - a diesel does NOT have to smoke like that, and should never be tuned in such a way to smoke IMO. It is wasteful and stupid:

[video=youtube;brlm2qP5b0w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brlm2qP5b0w[/video]

Someday Alrock is gonna let me swap a Cummins in his H3

 

[SolidusJ]

4BT's are mechanically injected 4 cylinder engines with front gear trains. They are nothing but a 5.9L 6BT with 2 less cylinders. Stock they had max ratings of 130HP, but just like their 6 cylinder counterparts it is ridiculously easy to double or triple the power of these engines. Newer replacements are the ISB3.9 and ISB4.5. These are common rail versions of the 5.9 and 6.7 respectively. Typical ratings are 170HP and 400lb-ft torque, in South America Ford offered the F-250 with an ISB3.9 rated at 200HP and 420lb-ft. Here's a pic of a Common rail ISB3.9:

Here is the mechanically injected 3.9L 4BT:

This engine is mated to a 4L60 trans:

Accessories. Note that you only see an alternator and AC compressor. That is because the power steering pump is driven off of the gear train (not visible in this pic):

So far I have never found a Cummins swap in an H3, but they are common in Jeeps, Here's a TJ with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;PD0irqW_rhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD0irqW_rhA[/video]

Here's a 4-door JK with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;SqvcVThzRfQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqvcVThzRfQ[/video]

CJ-7 with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;5uG_Og24S68]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uG_Og24S68[/video]

JK with a 4BT:

[video=youtube;aLtj5qZkK8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtj5qZkK8M[/video]

The above JK in Moab. Note that someone screwed the pooch with fueling on this 4BT - a diesel does NOT have to smoke like that, and should never be tuned in such a way to smoke IMO. It is wasteful and stupid:

[video=youtube;brlm2qP5b0w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brlm2qP5b0w[/video]

Someday Alrock is gonna let me swap a Cummins in his H3

Oh how I dream everyday about a 4BT in my T. I volunteer to come out here to damn near pay her off. I've been asking everyone and their mother, if i was able to pull this off could I keep my stock power train?

 

[Tractordoll]

I have a 2012 ram 3500 longhorn with the 6.7 cummins. It really is a truly awesome truck. I average about 15mpg city and 21 highway. I picked it because the interior reminds me of the inside of an H2, luxury and comfort.

 

[alrock]

MaxPF, you know it's more likely that we do a 6.0 or 6.2 gas swap when the time comes. Friggin' emissions laws.

Tractordoll, glad you're still digging the Dodge.

 

[4speedfunk]

Great info MaxPF! I've been following my buddy's Cummins build...looks pretty sweet so far. He is using the 4BT and all the diesel guys around here seem like the Cummins motors best...specifically the 12v 6-cyl. and this 4-cyl. Of course Cummins is based out of Columbus, IN...just down the road from here and maybe that has something to do with their popularity. The early Cummins motors are "old-school" non-electronic motors and that seems to really appeal to the rednecks around here. Duramax's and Powerstrokes are apparently too "techy" and cost tons of money to hop-up. None of the plow-boys here will tweek & tune with a laptop...they want mechanical-based motors. They could care less about emissions and I notice they like punch-it in front of my house and leave a thick black cloud as they scream by. Most of em have 8" diameter stacks routed up thru the bed (which looks rediculous by the way).

We have a very large PULLING TRUCK demographic here in the midwest, and Cummins is king. In fact...a bunch Ford guys actually swap to Cummins motors. Nearly everyone agrees that the Dodge truck is a hunk of junk (worst of the 3)....and the Cummins motor is awesome (best of the 3). So, there are lots of Chevys and Fords running around with the 12v Cummins under the hood.

I think a 4bt would work great in an H3, especially if you cut 1000lbs off it. Its a very small motor for the output you can get.

 

[erdlen65]

The H3T is going no where but wanted to know what would be a pretty damn good diesel truck? No need for a dually but something that would get great MPG and all around reliable new or old. For some odd reason the last few days I've been searching the web on a diesel trucks and really like the newer Rams but been told they get 13 MPG on the streets? I know the main reason anyone would get a diesel is to tow heavy gear and what not but would a diesel be better on MPG on the streets also? Any feed back would be great :thumbs:!!!!

I have a 2012 ram 1500 bighorn, I average 11-13.5 on the highway to and from work and in the city I get 5-9. But I'm in construction/remodeling so I normally have a bunch of stuff in the backseat a and the bed ( also I take full advantage of the 390hp Hemi) I guess if I drove slower and babied it a little more the mileage would be better haha. If you want diesel I would get the ram, I used to be an all ford guy when it came to trucks but with all the problems we have had with our ford work trucks lately I would go with the ram.

 

[MaxPF]

Oh how I dream everyday about a 4BT in my T. I volunteer to come out here to damn near pay her off. I've been asking everyone and their mother, if i was able to pull this off could I keep my stock power train?

It is possible. You notice the second pic I posted was a 4BT with a 4L60 mated to it. Destroked makes flywheel housings to mate just about any transmission to a Cummins. The ISB 4 cylinder engines are much more limited - they have their gear trains in the rear rather than the front. Not only does this often create fitment issues, but you are limited to SAE 3 mounting for the transmission. That is one reason why the older mechanically injected engines are much more commonly used.

A big problem with retaining the stock drivetrain is the diesel's torque capability. A STOCK standard output 4BT is only 105HP, but 265lb-ft torque at only 1600RPM. A "high output" 4BT is 130HP and 300lb-ft. An ISB3,9 or mildly modded 4BT will make 170HP and 400lb-ft torque - at that point you have exceeded the torque ratings of a 4L65E with a 170HP engine. Bump either to the 250HP range and you are making 550-600lb-ft torque.

The moral of that story is that you would be limited to 150-170HP and 380-400lb-ft torque, and preferably less (350lb-ft or so), with the stock trans. Frankly, I would NEVER put a 4L60/65 behind a diesel - they are simply too fragile. An upgrade to a built 4L80E or 85E would not only give you much more durability, but also allow you to freely bump up the power (within limits). Assuming a 32 spline input gear is available for the stock BW t-case, you would be able to keep the rest of your drivetrain, for a while anyways Another auto trans option for the Cummins is the Dodge 47RH, 47RE, and 48RE. They are strong and easy to mate to the Cummins. Only drawback is that the BW t-case would not directly mate to it. These are all things a swapper has to figure out.

MaxPF, you know it's more likely that we do a 6.0 or 6.2 gas swap when the time comes. Friggin' emissions laws.

A 6.2 could be fun

Great info MaxPF! I've been following my buddy's Cummins build...looks pretty sweet so far. He is using the 4BT and all the diesel guys around here seem like the Cummins motors best...specifically the 12v 6-cyl. and this 4-cyl. Of course Cummins is based out of Columbus, IN...just down the road from here and maybe that has something to do with their popularity. The early Cummins motors are "old-school" non-electronic motors and that seems to really appeal to the rednecks around here. Duramax's and Powerstrokes are apparently too "techy" and cost tons of money to hop-up. None of the plow-boys here will tweek & tune with a laptop...they want mechanical-based motors. They could care less about emissions and I notice they like punch-it in front of my house and leave a thick black cloud as they scream by. Most of em have 8" diameter stacks routed up thru the bed (which looks rediculous by the way).

I think stacks are ghey. As for the mechanically injected engines, a huge reason guys prefer them is, as you mentioned, simplicity, but also cost and reliability. The electronic engines themselves are reliable, but the injection systems are less so and VERY expensive to repair. On top of that, should an injector stick open on a common-rail engine it will usually destroy the engine. Failures with the common rail systems are not common - they are quite reliable - but when they do occur, it sucks big time. Also, as these are commercial and industrial engines, it may not be possible for the average guy to get his hands on a tuner capable of increasing the output. Mechanical 4BT's use all the same hop-up parts (injectors, pump components) as the 6BT used in Dodges, so power-adders are common and readily available.

One advantage of the common-rail engines is the same as their 6 cylinder counterpart: they can use pilot injection events to make the engine smoother and quieter. No matter what you do, a mechanical 4BT is gonna sound like a diesel

We have a very large PULLING TRUCK demographic here in the midwest, and Cummins is king. In fact...a bunch Ford guys actually swap to Cummins motors. Nearly everyone agrees that the Dodge truck is a hunk of junk (worst of the 3)....and the Cummins motor is awesome (best of the 3). So, there are lots of Chevys and Fords running around with the 12v Cummins under the hood.

I think a 4bt would work great in an H3, especially if you cut 1000lbs off it. Its a very small motor for the output you can get.

No need to cut 1000lbs off of it. Cummins specified the little 4 cylinder for use in trucks up to 35,000lbs GVW or thereabouts. With a few mods it will easily make more power and far more torque than a 3.7, and you can get the same power and WAY more torque than a V8 if you want.

 

[MaxPF]

Look what's for sale on Pirate: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/engi...1107568-cummins-4bta-recon-130hp-0-hours.html

Chew 'em down to 6 grand and it would be a heck of a deal!

 

[Green 1]

I have a friend who has a 2012 and reporting 21-22. with his DMax.

 

[Expendable]

my old 1988 Chevy R20 (2WD Crew Cab Long Bed) had the 6.2 Detroit Diesel and Turbo 400. around town I got 14-15 and on the freeway 19-22.not bad for a three speed truck that topped out at 88mph empty. never towed with her so I don't have that to compare.

If I were to look for another diesel truck in the future it would be an 05-07 Chevy/GMC. (if 2007, the classic and not the 2007.5). Though I really enjoyed driving my dad's 2006 Chevy Kodiak . . .