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That's kinda what I was wondering.
-
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SO.... is there really no way to fix the steering rack issue on the H3?
- Thread starter backcountryislife
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backcountryislife
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Mine went in a new u strap with rubber and fell out 2 days later. Had one side been welded the teeth I'd think would have held it in there better.
No real downside to it IMO, but it will keep the sleeve in place better. Falling out was a symptom of a different problem, not because of the sleeve, but it's a very easy solution IMO.
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What I have been running on the 06 and now Alpha was just the sleeve. I was using a 3 inch sleeve because with my tie rods I use different boots anyway. It is captive between the hydraulic fitting and the nut on the end of the rack.
I changed to a 2 inch sleeve on mine to test how it would work and see what other people would be involved with. Waaay back I found out and posted that if you buy new boots they are now stiffer and will hardly stretch at all. I could not get them over the end of the rack with the 3 inch sleeve in place.
So I am messing with the 2 inch sleeve with a ground down bracket that fit tight when I installed it. I got my tires today and while I have it jacked up will check for movement.
My idea of welding was to keep the pieces in place better if you do not grind like I suggest. With all these posts about using the thin neoprene which sounds good if you are having issues with getting it tight, I wanted to go a step further in investigating improvements to the setup.
So no, it really does not tighten up the sleeve any more but if you fail to get it tight this will prevent it from sliding left or right.
However if it is not tight you need to add the rubber until it is. Either both sides or one side if you cannot get the bracket on.
The welding is just another added level of protection for those that wheel a lot and hard.
I think as they say "all of the above" mods listed here would be the way to go unless some one else comes up with other options.
I changed to a 2 inch sleeve on mine to test how it would work and see what other people would be involved with. Waaay back I found out and posted that if you buy new boots they are now stiffer and will hardly stretch at all. I could not get them over the end of the rack with the 3 inch sleeve in place.
So I am messing with the 2 inch sleeve with a ground down bracket that fit tight when I installed it. I got my tires today and while I have it jacked up will check for movement.
My idea of welding was to keep the pieces in place better if you do not grind like I suggest. With all these posts about using the thin neoprene which sounds good if you are having issues with getting it tight, I wanted to go a step further in investigating improvements to the setup.
So no, it really does not tighten up the sleeve any more but if you fail to get it tight this will prevent it from sliding left or right.
However if it is not tight you need to add the rubber until it is. Either both sides or one side if you cannot get the bracket on.
The welding is just another added level of protection for those that wheel a lot and hard.
I think as they say "all of the above" mods listed here would be the way to go unless some one else comes up with other options.
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08H3
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I've made vague references to my "fix" for this issue, so I'll post up what I made work so it doesn't sound like I'm having a one sided conversation with myself. I just didn't want to slap something together and find out it failed after a couple hundred miles. I have 2,000 miles on this now and the setup still has absolutely no movement. Keep in mind this is what Hunner likes to call a "farmer fix". This isn't going to the extremes of designing new bushings or a truss for the rack like others are doing. That's all way beyond my skill level. What I found on my particular truck was that I had .25" clearance between the frame rail and the rack and about .125" between the strap and rack. This difference is why the Hunner sleeve by itself would never tighten up by itself on my truck. I looked throgh my junk bin and lo and behold I had a piece of .25" angle iron about 3 inches long that fit the strap (top to bottom distance) perfectly. I simply put that between the frame and the rack, welded half-a-Hunner to the strap and tightended it up. Works great. Having that iron on the back side also gived a much more solid backing for the rack in case the issue came from the frame rail actually becoming distorted, which I think someone had mentioned before. The two small welds on the edge of the angle iron are just to keep it captive. That's the only thing they are there for. I did mess up though. They should be directly by the strap instead of where I put them, but that's minor.
Not pretty, but so far it's got the job done much better than anything I've tried in the past.
NOTE: The picture is deceiving. The angle iron is actually mounted flipped 180 degrees and is a perfect fit inside the bracket. The pic just happens to be what I took while the paint was drying.
By the way, here is an after video. It's very poor becasue I didn't use a tripod, but you get the idea-- no movement. [video=youtube;H0A4yDEzoxA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0A4yDEzoxA[/video]
Not pretty, but so far it's got the job done much better than anything I've tried in the past.
NOTE: The picture is deceiving. The angle iron is actually mounted flipped 180 degrees and is a perfect fit inside the bracket. The pic just happens to be what I took while the paint was drying.
By the way, here is an after video. It's very poor becasue I didn't use a tripod, but you get the idea-- no movement. [video=youtube;H0A4yDEzoxA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0A4yDEzoxA[/video]
In your first picture, 08H3, I can see the sleeve is not not conformed to the strap clamp. If it was not welded it would not be captive and tighten up.
I'm just trying to point out things I see that I did differently so we can find the best way for those having trouble.
Is your steering wheel straight? You have spaced out the rack some from the stock location, I believe.
I checked mine tonight and after 40,000 on the Alpha there was a bit of jiggle in the sleeve. When I removed it I could see some wear from the slight movement.
So I decided to try the welded one, some thin rubber I already had laying around from previous versions and see what happened.
The one I welded was a new bracket, squeezed in the vice first, then ground down the ends around the holes. Not a lot just took it down some to get more compression. I was not going to take off enough that I thought it made it too weak. I have not bent one so I don't know what causes that.
So I basically repeated a fresh installation, with a new modified bracket as I did before, add the thin rubber and it took out all the play. No movement jacked up or on the ground. I do use a couple of washers on the bolts and they still stick in the frame a half inch past the weldnut. I can see the ends with a flashlight .That saves some wrenching. The first time you do this I also recommended cleaning the dried OEM thread locker off the threads so you can start the bolt easier, especially the top one. I wanted to keep the OEM bolts with the guide end with no threads to get it lined up and started. I hate that top bolt but with patience and a ratchet with a handle that turns it goes ok. Well sort of!
This looks to me like the forces were front to back not left and right.
The pair I fabbed up today. Hunner prototype red. lol for picture clarity.
I went ahead and made me a 3 inch one but the way I have to use SS hose clamps to hold my tie rod boots I would have to do some adjusting to use them now. Just another project.
This is what it looks like when I tightened my top bolt all the way, allowing the bottom to pull away to show how much I can tighten up the package. Tightening that bolt squeezes the bracket around the sleeve and was tight all the way in as it compressed the bracket around the sleeve. I cut off the lower tab so I could pull this end towards the frame better. I also use red thread locker.
then when I tighten the lower bolt the sleeve is tight and the rack does not move.
I did use the thin rubber this time and stuck it in place with some good 3M old yeller spray adhesive.
My other end does not move either. Solid. Drove out to the humped railroad crossing and hit it at bout 50mph no movement. Came back hand checked it on the ground and jacked up. NO movement. I will see how this holds up. I just left the skid plate off for awhile so I will be more likely to get in there and look at it.
That and everything else I wrote is all I know at this point. Patience and perseverance.
By the way new tires are always great! I had to turn down the stereo on the concrete freeway. No more roar!
I'm just trying to point out things I see that I did differently so we can find the best way for those having trouble.
Is your steering wheel straight? You have spaced out the rack some from the stock location, I believe.
I checked mine tonight and after 40,000 on the Alpha there was a bit of jiggle in the sleeve. When I removed it I could see some wear from the slight movement.
So I decided to try the welded one, some thin rubber I already had laying around from previous versions and see what happened.
The one I welded was a new bracket, squeezed in the vice first, then ground down the ends around the holes. Not a lot just took it down some to get more compression. I was not going to take off enough that I thought it made it too weak. I have not bent one so I don't know what causes that.
So I basically repeated a fresh installation, with a new modified bracket as I did before, add the thin rubber and it took out all the play. No movement jacked up or on the ground. I do use a couple of washers on the bolts and they still stick in the frame a half inch past the weldnut. I can see the ends with a flashlight .That saves some wrenching. The first time you do this I also recommended cleaning the dried OEM thread locker off the threads so you can start the bolt easier, especially the top one. I wanted to keep the OEM bolts with the guide end with no threads to get it lined up and started. I hate that top bolt but with patience and a ratchet with a handle that turns it goes ok. Well sort of!
This looks to me like the forces were front to back not left and right.
The pair I fabbed up today. Hunner prototype red. lol for picture clarity.
I went ahead and made me a 3 inch one but the way I have to use SS hose clamps to hold my tie rod boots I would have to do some adjusting to use them now. Just another project.
This is what it looks like when I tightened my top bolt all the way, allowing the bottom to pull away to show how much I can tighten up the package. Tightening that bolt squeezes the bracket around the sleeve and was tight all the way in as it compressed the bracket around the sleeve. I cut off the lower tab so I could pull this end towards the frame better. I also use red thread locker.
then when I tighten the lower bolt the sleeve is tight and the rack does not move.
I did use the thin rubber this time and stuck it in place with some good 3M old yeller spray adhesive.
My other end does not move either. Solid. Drove out to the humped railroad crossing and hit it at bout 50mph no movement. Came back hand checked it on the ground and jacked up. NO movement. I will see how this holds up. I just left the skid plate off for awhile so I will be more likely to get in there and look at it.
That and everything else I wrote is all I know at this point. Patience and perseverance.
By the way new tires are always great! I had to turn down the stereo on the concrete freeway. No more roar!
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08H3
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Interesting. I guess I had made the assumption that's the way it was supposed to be and by tightening against the rack, it would expand outward to tighten. I'll take your word for it that it should be different, BUT I will also note this. Thinking the strap might have been deformed when your sleeve didn't initially fit, I bought a second. Dimensionally, it looked the same as the old one and the sleeve fit the exact same way, so I don't really think it's a strap issue. Somewhere around here, I have a brand new RHD strap that I ordered by mistake. If I can find it, I'll see how the other half of the sleeve fits in that one.
Yes, wheel is straight. It may not be in the stock location, but anymore, I guess I would ask relative to what? What I can tell you is that the driver's side bushings appear fine, so I think they are out of the equation in my situation. What I can say is that the rack isn't forced out to fit the plate behind it. The plate slides in without issue.
Who knows what any of that really means. Just providing it as fodder for thought. All I know is that it's working for me right now, so for the time being, I'm a happy camper.
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backcountryislife
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In one of the posts, he shows how he conforms the U strap to the sleeve, and explains that the stock U strap will not fit perfectly without a little modification. You didn't have anything wrong with your setup, just need another step in the process, that's all. Keep in mind that we're putting something round in a spot that's U shaped... not going to be a perfect fit, just takes a bit of dorking around to get it right.
backcountryislife
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then when I tighten the lower bolt the sleeve is tight and the rack does not move.
That right there is exactly what I feel is the ideal setup for this. Rubber to help the steel not wear on steel, welded sleeve to U strap will keep u strap from bending, teeth meshed together & clamped down will keep either side from sliding... I think THAT is what I need to do next time. I feel that even with my drivers side problems, that would have held my rack in place just by itself! (and not allow the driver's side to be stressed like it was for some reason)
atvspeed4
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I think if you have your driverside fixed alone you will be fine. Even if I had no clamp on the passenger side I only get as much movement as the rubber bushings will allow me to move (maybe 1/4-1/2") It sounds like you have a structural metal issue where your rack bolts to the frame.
backcountryislife
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Once it stops snow/raining here I'll go tear it apart & find out!
backcountry That might be spring!
08H3 quote What I can say is that the rack isn't forced out to fit the plate behind it. The plate slides in without issue. quote
Ok, in my case I have to pull the rack away from the frame to put the sleeve in but only the same amount that the OEM rubber spaces it out. Without the sleeve in there it goes back against the frame. With the bracket removed I can pull on a tie rod and move that end of the rack.
All this input is great. We have covered a lot of things and I think it has helped others to understand how this should be done.
I have felt somehow I was not explaining well. Maybe sometimers? or I ass ume too much that even with my long explanations I left something out?
I'm trying and have sent lots of pm's and emails.
08H3 quote What I can say is that the rack isn't forced out to fit the plate behind it. The plate slides in without issue. quote
Ok, in my case I have to pull the rack away from the frame to put the sleeve in but only the same amount that the OEM rubber spaces it out. Without the sleeve in there it goes back against the frame. With the bracket removed I can pull on a tie rod and move that end of the rack.
All this input is great. We have covered a lot of things and I think it has helped others to understand how this should be done.
I have felt somehow I was not explaining well. Maybe sometimers? or I ass ume too much that even with my long explanations I left something out?
I'm trying and have sent lots of pm's and emails.
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backcountryislife
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I think that you've got SOOO much info out there, that it's not in one specific spot. Those of us that have read a ton of your posts, have run across each thing you've talked about, but it's in a lot of places.
btw... you might be right on that... it's almost winter here!
From about 2 hours ago, just above Georgetown. Snowing just above cloud line
atvspeed4
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Snow already??!!
I have tried to put a lot both in this thread and back on my sleeve thread in the sponsor section. I know it is a lot scattered about but it happened when I started trying to reply to everyone's questions.
I should be there! I could fill up an 8 gig card very quickly. I'm going to have to wait on fall colors here. It as been so dry the leaves may all turn brown before any color!
Got new tires for road trips so a few more things to do.
I should be there! I could fill up an 8 gig card very quickly. I'm going to have to wait on fall colors here. It as been so dry the leaves may all turn brown before any color!
Got new tires for road trips so a few more things to do.
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backcountryislife
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I thin chook's suggestion about putting the "answer" into a sticky is a good idea, not terribly practical, but having one big post with "instructions" & even just ideas/ suggestions for just your sleeve would be a good idea as well.
for example, this is a thread I maintain with a writeup on how I install a particular part, and I reference it when someone asks about it, and also update with changes or easier way to do what we're doing.
http://www.arcticchat.com/forum/pro...njection-delete-instructions-m800-w-pics.html
I guess I could make it a sticky, but being for a particular company, I don't like to do that since they're not a sponsor of that site.
Point is, it's one thread with as much info as I can get, and I can point to it for a complete explanation when needed, might help you out to have that?
for example, this is a thread I maintain with a writeup on how I install a particular part, and I reference it when someone asks about it, and also update with changes or easier way to do what we're doing.
http://www.arcticchat.com/forum/pro...njection-delete-instructions-m800-w-pics.html
I guess I could make it a sticky, but being for a particular company, I don't like to do that since they're not a sponsor of that site.
Point is, it's one thread with as much info as I can get, and I can point to it for a complete explanation when needed, might help you out to have that?
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I was concerned if I edited out the responses that go along with my suggestions it might not make sense in some of the replies. I don't want to have to edit all of those.
I will try to work on that in my sponser thread as I have lots of options that I can control. I might start there with only my updated info.
I already try to keep that up dated.
Right now I'm going to see if I can find some mud to wash these new tires in!
Links for more info on this fix by others.
I will try again
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...treme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves&p=67065#post67065
I will try to work on that in my sponser thread as I have lots of options that I can control. I might start there with only my updated info.
I already try to keep that up dated.
Right now I'm going to see if I can find some mud to wash these new tires in!
Links for more info on this fix by others.
I will try again
http://www.hummer4x4offroad.com/for...treme-Steering-Rack-Sleeves&p=67065#post67065
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backcountryislife
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that's a whole lotta
Yeah, we've got hundreds of threads about the deletes, but I just decided to put in there my ideas & a few other options, just to have a consolidated "answer" thread. You'll always have folks asking, but it's nice to be able to point to ONE spot & say "this is what I know, and how I suggest to do it... check it out"
Pappibri
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I think ye have done one helluva job explaining yerself, and I thank ye for your efforts... Bye the way? I wonder what is the post with the most hits ever on H4O. This one has to be close. :huh:
Pappibri
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Great Scott Man.... I do believe that you are right. Wow. 9,000 plus views.
atvspeed4
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Ha, well this one is far from being done.
backcountryislife
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Well... in about 4-6 hours, for me it will be! I just chose to do a "straight axle conversion" with the whole truck, that's all!
Getting one of the two toys today.
atvspeed4
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So im assuming that we should stop our development of the steering rack brace and solid bushings?