37"s

[Flash]

the five-cylinder absolutely LOVES the 5.13s & 35s combo..

5.13"s? Thought I read somewhere that 4.56 was the largest there was room for.

 

[06 H3]

he did a solid axle swap in the front. The rear can take lower gear ratios the front cant...but now with the solid axle he can go to whatever he wants.

 

[backcountryislife]

So, I know where we stand with our diff, but is there no other IFS diff that could go in with some minimal mods? Obviously this has been thought of before, but I don't want to do the work of the SA conversion, nor do I want to go as far as bebe has... but I feel like there has to be some... mid way mod we could do?

Couldn't we take the diff from a 1500 & use that? Or is that limited in gearing options as well?

The 2500 looks a decent ways different from what we have... but I'd think you could adapt that, no?

Like I said, I'm sure this has been discussed & shot down for a particular reason, I just don't know what that is.


I want to go to 37's next, but won't do it with my gearing, it would be un-driveable on the roads around here. It's already painful with 35's. I know gears would make a HUGE difference though!!

 

[4speedfunk]

To keep the H3 transfer case, you need a donor axle with the pinion on the passenger-side. This is the main problem with finding something to work on the H3. There simply aren't that many vehicles still using a passenger-side drop. Nearly all of the manufacturers went to driver-side drop in the early 90s, and its been that way ever since (solid or IFS). So, if you want a PS-drop IFS you'll probably have to go the Bebe route and make your own.

I'm right there with you...I've always thought a GM 2500 IFS assembly would be great but, you would need to swap-in a matching transfer case to basically relocate the entire front driveline from the PS to the DS. Once you do that...the axle choices would be numerous (solid or IFS). The only DS-drop H3 I've ever seen was Bully-Dog's Duramax powered truck.

The other option (and I'm getting way out there with this)...might be to re-clock the stock T-case to the other side. I know there are some old-school t-cases that this can be done to without any oiling problems. Not sure if the H3 T-case could handle the flip or not. MaxPF might be the guy to ask about this. I would love to see an H3 with an 8-lug IFS on the front...a 14-bolt disc brake on the rear....and a 2WD t-case. However, it might be easier to sit an H3 body down on a shortened 2500 frame.

 

[backcountryislife]

Never even thought about this one being on the other side before... crap, what a pain.

Just that ONE thing would make the H3 so much better of a vehicle... having lower gears. I'd guess at sea level you could get away with 37's on 4.56... but not a chance up here.

 

[06 H3]

Damn...never thought of that with the flipped t case. It would be nice to have a modified rancho lift. Spring over rear with a modified front rancho and 37s. Modified as a bigger diff 5.13s and a nice steering rack upgrade with a locker would be so nice to have

 

[4speedfunk]

So true. The only real common and available PS-drop donors would be from a Jeep CJ or a 73-87 chevy truck. These are both solid of course. Before I tore into mine, I did do some IFS investigating and unfortunately...everything plausible was for a drivers-side input.

If you have to go the Bebe route and make your own IFS center section...you might look into the HUMVEE differential. Its beefy, and seems like a good candidate...however, I'm not sure if desirable gear ratios are available for it. Remember...the H1 has portal hubs, and thus a secondary reduction out at the wheel. So, the diff itself might only come in high-ratios (example: like 2.30 or 2.55).

I also had the bright idea of taking an H3 rear axle (8.6 10-bolt with the E-locker option)...chopping off the LH-side tube...flippin it around and using it on the front. You could chop the RH tube to whatever length you need (around 24"). You would then have to make some sort of seal & bearing at end of the tube (not a big deal)...then out-source some stub axles with flanges (similiar to Bebe's) so you could bolt some half-shafts to it. The nice thing about using the H3 rear axle is that there are a million of em laying around, and they already come with a locker. You could also do something similar with a Ford high-pinion Dana 44 front axle...essentially move the pumpkin to the passenger side and re-tube it. This would probably be the hot ticket because unlike everything else...this differential is exclusively used in a front axle arrangement and it has the advantage of being specifically designed for use in reverse rotation...while everything else we're talking about is actually a rear-end application...spinning backwards. Its a minor detail but worth mentioning, if strength is your #1 goal.

I realize this is some pretty extreme fabbing but, if it were easy...we'de already see a bunch of em driving around.

 

[06 H3]

I like the idea of chopping up axle tubes the most. Not sure what clearance issues non rancho guys will have but the flanges may cause mounting issues. I need to dig up the old thread of 4digrs plan.

http://www.hummerxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=9933

Pros (in my eyes): re gear and strength

Cons: using a custom halfshaft for one side...

 

[4speedfunk]

Digger's swap had some good points. But, I don't think it was up to speed with my own personal standards...mostly due to the mounting. His Ford HP D44 pumpkin came from an IFS but, it was lacking mounting points and didn't seem to have any good way to bolt it to the truck. I spoke with him years ago about it, and he assured me that it was solid but still...the U-bolt over the snout sort of scared me away. This used a stock DS half-shaft and a custom PS half-shaft (for the D44 splines). Here's a pic of it outside the vehicle next to a stock AAM...
View attachment 6215

Blackbear's 10-bolt swap was a bit more refined in my opinion. His choice for the 10-bolt was driven by the fact that this diff shares the same splines as the H3 half-shafts. So, he was able to re-use the stock outboard stuff, and the PS half-shaft plugged right into the diff. Of course he had to add a seal. Like Digger's swap the DS re-used the stock AAM half-shaft coupler at the end of the tube. He dropped off the planet when CHO and H4O split, and I don't know if this ever got installed...

View attachment 6216View attachment 6217View attachment 6218

Fabbing vs. Machining. Both of the swaps above required some serious machining, and at least one custom shaft...and that's expensive. Also, some people think that welding on cast iron is a no-no. For these reasons, I think it might be worthwhile to start off with a pumpkin that already has seals and stub-shafts pre-designed. This would save a ton of head-scratching and machining. So that's why I suggested some sort of IFS pumpkin that already has stub-shafts, seals, and such. By using something like this, you can focus more on fabbing and how to hook the diff up to the hubs, rather than inventing your own seals, bearings, and rotating assembly. Below are pics of some axles that already have the expensive stuff done to them, (Viper, Corvette, H1). I'm not saying specifically "use these" but, merely pointing out the advantage of adapting an existing unit. In short...these donor diffs have all the expensive guesswork already done to them. Unfortunately, they all come from very expensive vehicles, so you need to take that into consideration...
View attachment 6219View attachment 6220View attachment 6221

I'm sort of "done" with all this IFS stuff, and I decided on the solid axle for all of the reasons above. However, I'm still a big IFS fan, and I would love to see somebody tackle the swap. I got tons of research, photos, and such on this topic...figured I could pass-on the info to somebody that could use it.

 

[Flash]

I'm sort of "done" with all this IFS stuff, and I decided on the solid axle for all of the reasons above. However, I'm still a big IFS fan.

Not really understanding the whole IFS vs Solid axle advantages and disadvantages I did a little research and the following links are what I came across to help me understand it. Just posting it here in case someone else like me needed a bit of background. The first link is a basic photo comparison of articulation. The second link is from a Jeep forum that gives a pretty clear explaination of the differences. The last 2 links are videos of a solid axle rock crawler and then a Baja racer with IFS. Think I have have a pretty good understanding now and certainly now understand where 4speed is coming from.

http://detr6oit.50megs.com/ifs1.html

http://www.jk-forum.com/jk-talk-26/better-why-ifs-vs-solid-axle-23218/

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/flex%20and%20rol/?action=view&current=Default.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH9uqIYjhEo

 

[backcountryislife]

Not really understanding the whole IFS vs Solid axle advantages and disadvantages I did a little research and the following links are what I came across to help me understand it. Just posting it here in case someone else like me needed a bit of background. The first link is a basic photo comparison of articulation. The second link is from a Jeep forum that gives a pretty clear explaination of the differences. The last 2 links are videos of a solid axle rock crawler and then a Baja racer with IFS. Think I have have a pretty good understanding now and certainly now understand where 4speed is coming from.

http://detr6oit.50megs.com/ifs1.html

http://www.jk-forum.com/jk-talk-26/better-why-ifs-vs-solid-axle-23218/

http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo150/Triathlete/flex%20and%20rol/?action=view&current=Default.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH9uqIYjhEo

That video is sick!

I wonder why, in a desert situation, where they're going for performance first & where IFS works so well, they still use a solid rear axle? Simply durability?

Keep in mind a lot of those conversations go to a number of different uses. For rock crawling/ rugged offroad, dollar for dollar, solid is much better, but there's obviously more to the equation than that.

 

[06 H3]

I am not too sure why they use a solid rear axle but people diss on leaf springs so much and if set up right you can get massive amounts of travel and ride nice with a good shock setup. Believe it or not leaves can pull 18in of travel. Its not uncommon in the prerunner world. Lets remember the H3 cant be bad at all in terms of baja style off roading. Rod Hall won the stock class for the baja 1000. If you look at his setup he used STOCK a arms, stock tie rods and I believe a stock steering rack but not 100% sure on that. Remember it was in the stock class for the race. He had a badass shock setup, 35s, a roll cage, 1in body lift and a stripped interior. In those races you beat the living hell out of your truck. Im not gonna sit here and say the H3 is the end all be all vehicle as there is no such thing but for an all around rig its pretty nice. Every vehicle has its issues. We deal with the front end issues while JK's deal with bent Dana 44s, Fjs have issues too. nothing for perfect or we would all be in the same thing. All have pros and cons.

Now if we could just modify an already made front diff and retrofit it that would be badass. I believe it can be done just takes some time. Im sure it took some time for xterra owners to come out with a kit that swaps the titan front end under an xterra. This **** doesnt happen overnight. I hope to find an answer but it takes time and research. Bebe researched for a long time along with 4speed. It took me a year of researching and sitting in fear of doing a spring over. It may seem all badass on here because there are less then 10 H3s in the world with a spring over but thats simple, jeepers do that **** in their sleep. Give it some time and hopefully we will find something that can work. 4speed has done a lot of research and he is a good assest.

Lastly about the pros and cons of a solid axle and IFS...If you give a setup time and money it will work for the most part. Jeeps can be set up for speed and IFS can be set up for rock crawling. With innovation, patience time and money most setups can be designed to work well in a particular terrain.

Btw, after seeing that video I wanna go blast down a dirt road at 50 mph and hit some jumps! Im more of a rock guy but I wanna start using the H3 for some other terrain too.

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/eventcoverage/131_0706_rod_hall_baja_1000_hummer_h3/photo_05.html

 

[backcountryislife]

Shoot... you can make the H3 do pretty wel on rock... for free!


There are reasons they do well, I personally just feel the stopping production was the only killer, otherwise we'd have way more support for them.

Compared to the FJ & xterra's out there, it takes way less to make an H3 be a real contender IMO...

 

[4speedfunk]

Shoot... you can make the H3 do pretty wel on rock... for free!

Well sort of... As long as you consider a garage full of spare AAM-7s and Rack Assemblies "free". :giggle:

Very true statement about our IFS brethren. I wheel with both FJ guys and Xterra guys...and the H3 does seem to be a cut above, at least in stock form. But remember its MSRP is $10K more too! Either way...I like hangin with the black-sheep vehicles. Nice to see something other than Jeeps on the trails.

 

[atvspeed4]

We are supposed to pick up our custom ifs dana 30 HP for the chevy s10 zr2 tomorrow. Shop said they had made some changes from our original dimensions so I hope it fits! We think we can build a direct fit diff based on the low pinion 44. What we are hoping is that there is enough room to shift the diff over 3/4" to allow us to make new end brackets and use stock k2500 cvs. Problem is that this is a $$ project. After buying the diff, having custom shafts made and custom fabricating mounts you are looking at around $1100 thats before buying a locker.

 

[4speedfunk]

Yup. That's very close to the same price I came up with. If the rest of the IFS was good-to-go...it would not be a hard sell. But, as Bebe has proven...one thing leads to another on the H3, and the whole enchalada is questionable at best. I'm speaking of upper and lower A-arms (no grease fittings)...steering rack (somewhat weak)...mounting system (bushings)...T-bars (convert to coilovers)...then your stock half-shafts won't fit (custom)...then you gotta shove it over into the tranny pan (more work)...and it goes on and on. Basically...to do it right, and take full advantage of a long-travel design, you gotta shave the frame rails and start from scratch. Keep the knuckles and the hubs...everything else can go in the dumpster. That sucks...but that's what you gotta do to keep and improve the IFS. You really gotta want it.

 

[backcountryislife]

We are supposed to pick up our custom ifs dana 30 HP for the chevy s10 zr2 tomorrow. Shop said they had made some changes from our original dimensions so I hope it fits! We think we can build a direct fit diff based on the low pinion 44. What we are hoping is that there is enough room to shift the diff over 3/4" to allow us to make new end brackets and use stock k2500 cvs. Problem is that this is a $$ project. After buying the diff, having custom shafts made and custom fabricating mounts you are looking at around $1100 thats before buying a locker.

1100 to have a solid F diff that we can gear down, so that the 3.5 or 3.7 is decent again... even for a guy looking to run just 35's that would be doable I'd think.

If someone had given me that option right when I had messed up my aam7, I'd have pulled the trigger on getting one coming. I know the other parts are suspect, but I hope we can get the rack working a bit better with better mounting... we'll see. If not, I'll start working on modding something else, probably find a way to use the same rack that Bebe did.




4speed, yeah, I forget that these are pretty pricey off the line, when I bought mine, I couldn't touch an FJ or Xterra for the same price with similar miles, not even close. Most were about 4-5 k more. Looking at current prices, I just happened to buy when they were cheap, not out of smarts, just luck.

 

[atvspeed4]

Im confused as to why a bodylift cost so much:

14mm x 2.0 x 160 bolts = $33.57 Mcmaster carr
14mm washers = $12.93 Mcmaster carr
12 - 1" body lift spacers = $28.35 Summit

Total = $74.85

 

[backcountryislife]

Im confused as to why a bodylift cost so much:

14mm x 2.0 x 160 bolts = $33.57 Mcmaster carr
14mm washers = $12.93 Mcmaster carr
12 - 1" body lift spacers = $28.35 Summit

Total = $74.85

I said the same thing in the last body lift thread & got beat up about it... I could get more uptravel out of my 35's as I sit, if I had a 1"body lift, I'm thinking about doing one just because of that.

 

[ZachH3]

Don't know :gaah: if this is the right place to ask, but going to 35s, do I have to do a lift on my H3 Adv, or rather, from what size would you guys recommend you need to do a lift to prevent the tyre damage the body. Body role and so on........?:huh:

 

[Portager]

All you need is a torsion bar crank for 35's.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[atvspeed4]

I said the same thing in the last body lift thread & got beat up about it... I could get more uptravel out of my 35's as I sit, if I had a 1"body lift, I'm thinking about doing one just because of that.

Its stupid, the only thing the kit includes extra is the instructions (which are online) and a little plastic hose clamp to hold the radiator hose. THATS IT!

 

[Portager]

I've stuffed my 35's to the hard stops without rubbing. I don't see any need or positive benefit to the body lift with 35's.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[reaper]

I could get more uptravel out of my 35's as I sit, if I had a 1" body lift, I'm thinking about doing one just because of that.

Dude, we should totally do body lifts when we throw in our tcases!!!

 

[backcountryislife]

Dude, we should totally do body lifts when we throw in our tcases!!!

Man... you're already lifted... that would be like cheating.

For $75 or so though, it's hard to justify not doing.


Portager, mine hits the plastic where the mudflap was on the front tire, and scrubs the inner fender at full stuff in the rear.

It's not a big deal, but there is SOME benefit. (I had said the same thing before giving it much thought, body lift seems counter to what I want to do on my truck.)

It would give me 1" more rock clearance at the body, between the tires. Not having sliders, that's a big benefit, and even after I do get them, I'd get a set built 1" higher.