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BOOM! Long awaited driveshaft adapters...

ABNTROOP

HIPPO
Messages
1,985
Location
Vancouver, Wa
Yup, what he said. Good info, good plan to see if we can reduce it. My concern is long term ramifications to either the front diff or the transfer case. Will see. I'll tinker with the Above suggestions over the next few weeks and report back as well.
 

rascole

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,349
Location
Bellflower, CA
1. Jack up the front wheels. Un-bolt the front u-joint from the diff, and rotate the yoke 180 degrees...then bolt it back up. Test drive.

2. Jack up the front wheels. Un-bolt the rear cardan from the t-case, and rotate it 90 degrees...then bolt it back up. Test drive.

3. Try inserting various thicknesses of washers under the nose on the diff (between the crossmember and the pumpkin), to change the pinion angle. Test drive.
.
4. Stick with the original drive shaft.
 

ABNTROOP

HIPPO
Messages
1,985
Location
Vancouver, Wa
4. Stick with the original drive shaft.
although that is certainly always an option after having had a replacement boot tear within 8 weeks of mainly freeway driving I'm leery of going that route. Who knows, maybe the GM engineers put the original drive line in for a reason. Then again, maybe not. Dunno. I'm no engineer. Just trying to find the best most reliable solution and would really rather not have to wipe out a crap ton of grease off the bottom of my rig a third time..
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,156
Location
Tardville
Yes that is an option. I think the stock CV joint is acceptable, AS LONG AS IT STAYS LUBED. The problem is the boot. Once the boot rips...the joint quickly fails soon after. The design seems to account for this as it looks like the "cup" is intended to protect the boot. But it doesn't work.
I'm not aware of any t-case or diff failures that can be proven to be caused by long-tern use of a cardan. Not on Hummers, Jeeps, or anything else. I think the vibe "feels" much worse than it actually is. It's a "harmonics" situation and not really due to something being lop-sided or out of balance.
 
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rascole

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,349
Location
Bellflower, CA
Yes that is an option. I think the stock CV joint is acceptable, AS LONG AS IT STAYS LUBED. The problem is the boot. Once the boot rips...the joint quickly fails soon after. The design seems to account for this as it looks like the "cup" is intended to protect the boot. But it doesn't work.
I'm not aware of any t-case or diff failures that can be proven to be caused by long-tern use of a cardan. Not on Hummers, Jeeps, or anything else. I think the vibe "feels" much worse than it actually is. It's a "harmonics" situation and not really due to something being lop-sided or out of balance.
I agree, my 3 rarely sees anything above 65, never really in much of a hurry.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,499
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Just wanted to update everyone. Had the drive-shaft/drivetrain looked at, the noises i was hearing are normal for this type of drive-shaft and are rather minimal. The really only occur at one point in the torque band.

I guess i was being more or less paranoid because I have had 2 diffs go out. So everything is ship shape, drive-shaft and adapter combo are running perfectly.
 

atvspeed4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,111
Location
massachusetts
Please do not take this as bashing or discrediting 4speedfunk I have really been impressed with the products you have brought to market but I just wanted to add in my educated opinion on the front driveshaft. There is no reason to run a double cardan joint on an H3 unless you have a SAS and are lifted 5+ inches which necessitates the ability to achieve a higher angle. A double cardan is not a direct replacement for a tripod joint. While they both are considered constant velocity joints, the dimensions, precision, design and finish are very different. You are adding additional rotating mass, moving the pivot point out from the transfercase (typically) and I have found that a double cardan is typically not a precision machined/ balanced piece. While I know they say they balance the shaft, for some reason double cardan joints tend to behave differently when installed and used in the real world. The shaft we decided to make for our personal H3 just uses a single 1310 joint on each end and a slip spline in the middle with a custom yoke/ flange to mate to the transfercase. This is the longest possible driveshaft combination and is pretty close to matching the pivot of the stock tripod joint. We have not had any issues with vibration and are limiting the number of moving parts as we really want the most simple and serviceable improvements. Most driveshaft shops can build one of these shafts. Heck while it would lengthen the shaft a little you probably could still run the adapter. Just my opinion...
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,156
Location
Tardville
No bash taken...agree 100%. The CV is not needed for angle...its there to cancel any weird vibes that might occur without it.

In fact...I think I could run a single jointed shaft, even on my 5"+ lifted SAS rig. The 3-link I use has very mild driveline angles, even at 5" of lift. I think Big Red (and soon to be) Squeaky would be in even better shape. They both use hi-pinion housings, and the driveshaft angle is even less. On the solid axle set-up, it would work fine at static ride-height but, as the suspension droops...it would quickly get into "bind" range. So we definitely need the CV for the live axle.

But like you say...there is no droop with the IFS, and the shaft angle at the yoke is near zero. Its the one at the t-case that has some bend to it. Ideally when running a single-jointed shaft...the two angles at each end are supposed to be the same, to cancel each other out. Normally you would shim the t-case crossmember or shim the front axle pinion angle to get them the same. Its a very minor issue and there is lots of fluff in that rule of thumb. I see nothing wrong with a single-jointed shaft and if anyone wants to try it out...its probably even cheaper than the CV shaft that Tatton is making for us. This same 1310 CV flange is available in a standard single u-joint flange. It looks like this:

5c4b5652f7d4ec45ed98e286d85a9de9.jpg


Here's a shot of the two flanges in question...standard 1310 flange...and 1310-CV:

e9e0bb363e1c0191049fabc341d65dad.jpg


As you can see the single u-joint is much shorter. The overall length of the shaft would still need to be the same 30". You would need to specify a standard 1310 u-joint flange, instead of the CV. Also, if anyone wants to convert their CV equipped shaft to the standard U-joint...you can do it without any welding, or buying a new driveshaft. Simply buy the standard flange, and install it in place of the CV on your current driveshaft. You will need to cut the center-pin off the CV casting (the one attached to the driveshaft tube). This will result in a shorter overall length, so you would also need a longer slip collar at the other end. These collars are available in several lengths, and you need to select one to match the length difference between the parts you swapped on the other end. They just pull off by hand but, make sure you note the phasing so you put the new one back on in the same orientation. Here's a shot of the what a longer slip collar looks like:

9aaaf9f673cb36fc54d6349a92ee9dd8.jpg


BTW...All of this stuff is very common, over-the-counter parts. Any driveline shop can do this work if you don't feel up to it.
 
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mantracker

Well-Known Member
Messages
159
Location
Tennessee
I spoke with Curtis yesterday on the status of my order. He told me, that his lathe is down, and he's had to do these by hand. Would this have any bearing on the quality of the shaft?
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,156
Location
Tardville
"his lathe is down" is machinist jargon for "I'm taking Friday off". It loosely translates to..."I got a bucket of night-crawlers, a twelve pack of beer, and I'm goin fishin!"

All joking aside. I don't think a lathe being down would effect the quality of his product.
 

rascole

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,349
Location
Bellflower, CA
Installed my new adapter and shaft today. Quick installation and easy to do. The only mod I had to do was 2 of the bolts on the TC side I had to grind down a little because the flange face was digging into the side of the U joint. After I had the old shaft out I could clearly see the rubber boot on the CV and it had a lot of cracking and looked like it could go any time. I test drove it up to 60 mph and there was NO vibration felt, I did however HEAR the noise. I will take a video of it tomorrow and post it.
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ABNTROOP

HIPPO
Messages
1,985
Location
Vancouver, Wa
Yeah, primarily. When I'm at 70ish mph and let off the gas for a sec or three I can hear/feel a slight grinding vibration. I had the drive shaft out yesterday and checked it over. No wear marks. Everything looks fine. Rebolted it up just rotated the U joint 180 when I bolted it back in. Vibration was still there on test drive last night. Going to unbolt adapter to transfer case and rebolt it to see if it makes a difference.
 

cgalpha08

"Like Nothing Else"
Messages
3,499
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Let me reiterate I wasn't having a vibration, it was a noise at a certain point in the torque curve. And Chris, no what I heard was on acceleration.
 

rascole

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,349
Location
Bellflower, CA
When u guys talk about noise is it noise on deceleration?
At all times. It is at all speeds as well which leads me to believe it is the double cardan. Because it is a new sound is why it is of concern. But I'm not overly concerned, if was transferred to the body I would be. Did my pictures show up or is the site still acting up?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,156
Location
Tardville
Rascole....that sounds horrible! I'll be the first to admit that I don't watch, or listen to undercarriage video very often...so I don't have much of an opinion based solely on your video. But, its definitely "loud and grindy". It sounds like a bearing issue to me...probably pinion bearing or perhaps something going bad in the output shaft of the t-case. I'm assuming you can hear this inside the cabin, as well? My first thought is to check the pinion bearing on the front axle, as they are often times completely void of any pre-load at all. Grab the front diff yoke and give it a firm hand-shake...see if you can feel any looseness in it. Specifically, side-to-side looseness (not backlash looseness). This is best done with the front wheels off the ground, and the driveshaft disconnected.

I had a similar sound coming from my H3 and I would have bet my right arm it was a pinion bearing. However, it turned out to be a heat shield on the exhaust system. It rattled on decel and sounded amazingly similar to yours. It also seemed to get worse as the operating temperature rose. I had to drive around for 15 minutes before it became fully-audible. You might tap all the heat shields (there are several of them) with a hammer, and see if the sounds goes away, or changes. I think the solid cardan CV transmits more engine/driveline noise to the rest of the truck, and if a shield is loose...it will rattle, where it didn't before.
 
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