how can an axle break when its not locked or on low gear?

[06 H3]

Yep, trailbreaker those are my concerns abs and traction control. What land rover is that in?? I think there will be two options in the future. Make kits that are adapted to work on the H3 like the land rover electronics or be like the CJ-7 guys and wheel old school which isnt too bad either, seeing that they are pretty capable in todays day and age but lacking up to date comforts.

 

[theBroken]

Abs and traction control

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Just use the same rotors and calipers.

 

[06 H3]

so basically if u use the same rotors and calipers u wont have a light show on the dash? My only problem personally is how difficult it is to put them on another axle. And the steering confuses me too

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[TrailBreaker]

The wheel speed sensor is in the hub, which mountes to the knuckle, the wheel studs mount tothe hub,and the rotor is held in by the caliper and wheel. the brake rotors and calipers have nothing to do with the wheel speed sensors.

ANd 06, the Land Rover is basically all of them (except the LR2, which is the smallest) Look at the LR3 and Range Rover. There is some cool tech going on with them.

 

[theBroken]

so basically if u use the same rotors and calipers u wont have a light show on the dash? My only problem personally is how difficult it is to put them on another axle. And the steering confuses me too

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Yes you are correct in your thinking. Steering remains the same you just may need longer tierods.

It's not difficult to put it on another axle, just need to have the same type of mounting and it would be fine. Other companies do this in conversions. I would stay away from the SFA, it's a ton of work and the frame up front is not designed for it. To get the new axle to work you would need to raise it up a lot to get it to work because the frame don't have that dip in it like others do.

If you are going to do something like this I would steer to something like what bebe did. Keep in mind, IFS did win KOH last year.

 

[06 H3]

I have been trying to get a bolt in ifs kit. I am giving a call in to ore friday and see if they can give me direction

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[4speedfunk]

A new IFS pumpkin casting?....starts about $30,000 for the design, then a minimum production run would need to be financed after that. This is the only way I would beef-up the stock IFS. Unfortunately...there's just not alot of IFS swap options for the H3.
ORE?...save the quarter, I already know its more than I can afford.
Solid Axle...not my first choice but, I'm goin there! Just can't argue the with the strength, cost, parts availibility, and simplicity. GM 6-lug Dana 44 is the same width, same bolt-pattern, and the yards are full of em.
ABS, TC, VSS?.....tone rings on the hubs (working on it right now).
Brakes?...H3 rotors, H3 calipers, custom D44 caliper mounts, custom ABS sensors. Everything else...old school GM Dana. RCV shafts if I sell a few more bumpers.
Steering?...undecided. Most likely GM-saginaw or Early Bronco with cross-over and high-steer.
Suspension?...coil-overs w/3-link. All droop...5" of up travel. All custom. Jeep style track-bar.

 

[06 H3]

How much was blackbears ifs? I believe there's cheaper solutions

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[06 H3]

Just reviewed that build again. That's a lot of work....gahhh! I want a decently priced yet strong bolt in solution

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[08H3]

I've been halfway following this thread, and it dawned on me that 4diggr has already done exactly what you guys are looking for. He has a Dana 44 IFS. If I recall correctly, the big issue for him making it a kit was that no one was willing to pay for it. Unfortunately, it's going to cost money no matter where it's done. I don't even know if 4diggr is on the forums any more, but if enough guys got behind his idea, it might be worth a shot. He's already got the engineering down and as far as I know he's never had an issue with it, at least not that he's publicly admitted on the forums.

 

[06 H3]

Putting time and effort isnt a problem, Depending on how much it is to buy, can be, If its alot I will need a few months of saving up. Can anyone contact him and see how things are going with it?

 

[5gn-h3t]

I think a bolt-in replacement with minimal (< 6") lift would be ideal.

As others have done, I think the best option is to take a solid axle and machine it down to work with the IFS. I haven't had time to play with axles or spend much time under the 3, but...

I'm currently going to school for precision machining and have a full shop at my disposal. I'm willing to help out in any way I can if someone can come up with a detailed plan on how to do this.

Just hack down a SFA D44 and add some brackets. How hard can it be?

 

[06 H3]

Not too hard! lol I wish I was closer to you. One day I hope to have access to a full on machine shop. Maybe if I ask around I may find a friend of a friend.

 

[gfbh3t]

Have any of you read the article in December 2011 Petersens 4 Wheel & Off-Road on the Ultimate f-150, they put Dynatrac pro-rock 60 front housing in with RCV axle shafts custom made knuckles and Dynaloc free spin spindle hubs. Just what we need.

 

[ReconH3]

When I first showed up at ORE for my project there was an extreme H1 with a complete custom IFS/IRS. I asked him about doing something similar with the front end. His reply was the front setup alone was going to cost more than the two Dana 60s. Unless you go Bebe's route with available parts, chances are SAS will always be easier and cheaper.


"Ex Umbris Venimus"

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[4speedfunk]

put Dynatrac pro-rock 60 front housing in with RCV axle shafts custom made knuckles and Dynaloc free spin spindle hubs. Just what we need.

Yeah...a $20K axle in a $10K truck! I agree that this is the fix...however mentioning Dynatrac Pro-Rock, RCV, and Free-spin all in the same sentence is enough to give me a heart-attack! Its definately not what I need! That magazine set-up is actually a great idea but, I'm trying to do something similar with a junkyard axle. I'm getting some estimates this week for custom Dana 44 knuckles. My thought is to make some knuckles that have all the stock outboard mounts from the H3, with the ball joint locations that mimic the Dana 44 knuckles. Since RCV now makes BOTH axle sets for the GM D44, and the H3 half-shafts...they could make me a hybrid set with the Dana inners and H3 outers. Then the whole brake & unit-bearing assembly from the H3 would bolt on to the old Dana. (this is very similar to what Jeep did with the new JK front axles). Problem solved!

Not exactly. Since casting is out of the question...the knuckles would be carved from steel billet on a 5-axis CNC mill, then heat-treated after all the cutting. Big money. Also, there could be some spacing issues with the stock H3 stubs that would require RCV to make custom outers...also big money. Not to mention, you're stuck with the unit bearings which is great for ABS...not so great for offroading. So I'm struggling between this method of "all-new outers" vs. my original plan of "dumping the unit bearings and trying to make the ole D44 hubs ABS-compatable". I think I got the latter method figured out....for very little dough.

 

[06 H3]

Have any of you read the article in December 2011 Petersens 4 Wheel & Off-Road on the Ultimate f-150, they put Dynatrac pro-rock 60 front housing in with RCV axle shafts custom made knuckles and Dynaloc free spin spindle hubs. Just what we need.

That build was insane. It was cool to see them use ifs for once especially on a hardcore trip

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[bebe]

The Dana 44 is the easy part.

Getting it to fit under the oil pan without lifting the vehicle so you still have some ground clearance is THE issue.

We could build them all day long, take an SFA D44, chop off the tubes and add some custom length RCV shafts. Done. It doesn't have to get as complicated as mine, but for many reasons I couldn't get away with a minimal job. Too much testosterone in that shop.:giggle:

 

[06 H3]

Now you would have a better guess than I would but if you rancho lift it would it be enough clearance for the D44? It drops the axle about 4 inches with the brackets. Reenforce the steering rack and throw some bulletproof tie rods on there run 5.13s and 37s call it a day. or find a rack like they used in the UA F150 http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/ultima..._2011_ford_f150_ecoboost_part_4/photo_10.html

 

[bebe]

I'll have to read that article - but I can tell you from a quick glance it's a complete knock off of my build, and I'm flattered.

That looks like a full hydro set-up, or a shop built cylinder.

Yes, a 4 inch Rancho and 37's will work. You will have to keep the torsion bar suspension.

However, when you look at the cost of the Rancho, the new tires and wheel, shocks, brake lines etc. You are right there in line with my build cost wise.

The plus of my build is keeping the OEM knuckles. Lift knuckles are not as strong. Keeping the OEM wheels seated on the OEM wheel bearings extend the life of the unit bearing.

Upgrade the steering rack, you are looking at more money. Reinforce it, and make your own tie rods from tube and you can save another $600.00.

 

[bebe]

To answer the OP:

hey every one, i just wanted to know if an axle could break without locking it or using it in lowgear. isnt the tire going to just spin?Because a have been planning on changing steering rack and tie rods for 37". I have changes to the rcv outer cv joints. thank you.

Stupidity can make anything happen.

Nothing is bullet proof.

Nothing is unbreakable.

You have to drive within your means - pure and simple.

 

[06 H3]

All these possibilities keep me so indecisive! My biggest issue is clearance and have no other way to get it up higher until I go your route. I want to but cant right now, I want all the possible experience before I start cutting things off :whaa: I was thinking rancho it now and do something else later. I hear from some people Rancho is the best thing for an H3 and others say stay clear of it. Im just so confuzzled :gaah:

Yea they did copy you! You and MFS Fab deserve all the credit and in all honesty you have opened up the world for IFS in terms of street legal 4x4s. I am not trying to kiss ass or anything but its the truth. I do alot of research on stuff and I have seen so many threads on random forums about your build and they sit there and drool. Toyota Taco forums, desert racing forums, FJ forums and the list goes on.

 

[bebe]

As with any mod - it's how you are going to use it. I've observed you and your driving style enough to say that the Rancho would work for you IF you keep your foot out of it. Without the 4:1 transfer case, that may be fairly hard to do.

With every benefit there is a cost, it's just life. You need to carefully consider each mod for it's pro's and con's and know your limitations.

 

[DJinCO]

"A man has got to know his limitations." -- Dirty Harry

 

[06 H3]

Bebe, before I had answered I wanted to do some more searching around. A 4:1 is on the list and as I get older and have more trail time I will become a better driver. I have had my license only for 3 years as of October 17th Enough with the excuses though...My thought was that the rancho kit would be my "Drop Cradle" instead of going your route for a different axle. The T-Bars can still be eliminated by using different LCA's, The rancho kit uses the stock ones. So if someone does come out with LCA's, UCA's and a shock mounting point I could go ditch the T-bars just as easy as a stock H3 all I would need is a longer shock then the t bar cranked H3's. Now here is where I was probably misunderstood. I have seen the clearances of the oil pan and the diff but looked again last night and it is tighter then I remember. Is the only reason the drop cradle was spaced that far away from the frame because of the tight clearances? Could you have gotten away with making the drop cradle closer to the frame? That may be one of the biggest issues to overcome with the rancho kit if I went with a different axle. As for the knuckles, I am not sure how much weaker they are because I havent really looked into that but you are probably right and I dont have a solution for that. Like you said every positive comes a negative. How much of a problem would that knuckle be? I am not sure. I think getting a wider track width is awesome for stability but you do put more stress on it. Did you extend your trackwidth when doing your project, I never saw a post about that and was just curious. Even if you did it wouldnt affect it which is nice seeing your on the stock knuckles and rims.

I want to try and keep this as stock and bolt in as possible for other H3'ers. Not everyone can do what you have done but if a bolt in axle with a rancho kit isnt possible then I will probably go your route. Even though expense might be similar some people dont have access to shops like MFS. We are lucky in CA to have these resources. I will also add this for those wondering why I would consider these mods here is why, Its not because I dont think the H3 is not capable, they are extremely capable like bebe said in her first post of her build I also agree when you said Look at rod hall and all the rigs that run moab. They are capable but no vehicle is perfect, and sometimes improving the weakness is for a good purpose regardless of vehicle make or model. Everything has weaknesses...