06 H3
a.k.a. "The Jackal"
- Messages
- 9,506
- Location
- Meridian, ID
I wanted to start this thread, I have seen this numerous times on just about any 4x4 forum, but it probably happens the least on pirate.
You start wheeling...you break, you modify, you plan something big, you tackle a big project, then a bigger project, you post up with ideas and then have bigger projects and then all of a sudden its done! All the excitement ends and the build slowly works its way down the pages of a forum and disappears. I always wondered, did it end up the way they wanted it? Do they use it? Did they lose interest? Were the modifications a fail? Or do they tell it all works because a ton of time and effort was put into it? I will be truthful and talk about the success's and fails.
I felt myself going down that path as I haven't posted much on here lately but I want to give a "where are they now" update.
So for the new guys on here I started with a bone stock H3. I was around when this forum started. It then got 35's, then a locker, then a 4:1 t case, then a broken diff, broken this, broken that, etc. Then a rancho lift, then those rear springs sagged, then deavers, then back to stock springs but sprung over.
I went through 4 front diffs and one tie rod before I made the leap to the SAS.
I was the 4th spring over I believe and still IFS at the time (after bebe, 4speed and the GM engineered Rancho H3) I probably have 70k miles on the spring over now and I recommend it to the fullest. That modification was a 100% success. The only changes I would ever possibly make is French the spring hangers into the frame to lower it a bit but that modification was awesome.
Then I did the solid axle swap. I think I was the 5th but the 3rd to do a DIY driveway build. Chopping an entire suspension off a vehicle and building it from scratch can be a lot of work but really the work doesn't end when it hits pavement...or it can and leave the end user putting up with things that are undesirable. Its the tuning and slowly scratching things off the list to make it into the vehicle you want!
I recommend the SAS for people that want to rock crawl. People throw around the term, I plan to do a SAS loosely. How much did it cost? how much this, how much that? Honestly, it depends on cost, it depends on it ride quality. it all depends....Was this modification a success? Yes, but it also came with months/years of tuning and making it better. It could have been tuned in months if I had the money but I tuned it slowly over years...Was it ever dangerous? or miserable to drive? No, it wasn't, it rode nice, it was safe out of the box but it could be fine tuned.
Then the 5 cyl motor blew up. I remember getting the envoy with a 5.3 from Zach and people said that the firewall was modified by GM for alphas and it wouldn't fit. Sure enough it did! It just had one pinch seam that needed to be hammered flat. The 5.3 is awesome but is it worth it? For me yes, because it would have been more expensive to sell my H3, buy an alpha then do a SAS and spring over. Is it worth it for a near stock H3? No...I would just take your parts off and buy an Alpha.
Then I did axle swaps, I would say don't do 1 tons unless you plan to run 40's. With a D44 and 10 bolt rear and 37's you can have a lot of fun, you may break something here or there but you will break less then stock! Now I run a custom D70 front I built and an Eaton HO72 rear. They have been awesome and haven't broke yet on 40's.
Then I recently did the cage. Its a hybrid cage that is unfinished. Was that a success or fail? Well it's hard to say if you haven't rolled it. I would say the cage will be a success but being in a rush for Ultimate adventure it made I didn't finish it and that made for extra work in the end. Not tying it into the frame and not beefing up the slider legs that the A pillar attaches to all caused a lot of additional work later. The slider legs bent causing the a pillar to shift up. I knew the 1x1 legs wouldn't hold up in a severe roll but would last in a flop and that had to do because I had 4 weeks to build a rear Dana 70 axle into a front axle, a cage, half doors, and everything else. Well I bent the legs rock crawling (just like my last set) and I had to cut the 3 1x1 .188 wall legs off then I got scared of bending it and went to 2x3 .188 wall tubing for the slider legs. That was a fail! the 2x3 hits the pinch seam and makes a terrible noise against the body. So off they went and I settled on 1.5x3 .25wall and added 7 legs instead of 3. That seems to be a success so far, no bending and no noise. My recommendation is that you do the cage at once, over build it where strength matters (don't add dead tubes to just add weight and no strength) and once its done its done! It will save a ton of additional work.
Steering for the SAS, man the steering is a pain in my ass. Is it unsafe? No, but I bought an old used box then went to another old used box and the steering feel was loose. I went to a new box and ram assist and it was good for a while and then I kept destroying Drag link ends due to abuse off road causing the steering to be loose. The steering was never as tight as I wanted it. I have gotten it better over the years and I am about to finish my last upgrade to it. Heims, I know they don't recommend heims for the street but I have had success with heims on other parts of my rig. Tie Rod End's gradually get ****tier and for me they could get ****ty after one or two off road runs. Heims stay tighter longer, they wont last as long but they will stay tight much longer. I would rather replace them more often then deal with loose steering. If you wheel moderately then TRE's should be a success.
Now for the biggest fail's the tie rod. we have tiny tie rods stock. 16mm tie rods, or .63 inches. I had 1.5in tie rod that was .25wall thick. I never broke one to leave me stranded like a stock tie rod but with that much beef I thought I would never have an issue. WRONG, I bend them every time I go out and am constantly having to adjust the toe after an off road run. The 1.5in .25wall is a success for most but under hard abuse they start to frown at you. So I am going to make it a success with an aluminum tie rod, they deflect and go back to their normal shape unlike steel.
[video=youtube;B601rrLFn-E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B601rrLFn-E[/video]
Another fail, skid plates. Man, I can't keep skid plates straight. I bent 1/4in steel pretty bad. I also reinforced the stock gas tank skid and wrecked that with ease.
I now have a 3/8in skid for the tcase and so far that has held up but its tough to consider it a success yet because I am not happy with the weight it has due to a thick piece of steel. so its a success in terms of not bending but I don't wanna make the rig 8k lbs. the gas tank skid is going to be custom and I will try 1/4in first for weight and I figure it doesn't see near the abuse the t case skid does.
So overall, was the truck a success or fail? I would say success and becoming more of a success as time goes by. Any fail was just a setback and a reason to come up with another solution. Other people have driven my rig, its comfy, rides nice and is drivable for anyone. There are no fears of some quirk happening and causing bad things to happen if someone else is behind the wheel.
This year was a crazy year. I drove it multiple trips to hammers (135 miles each way to some of the gnarliest rock crawling in the country.) Then I drove it to moab (750 miles each way) wheeled a full week and drove 750 miles home. Then I got picked for Ultimate adventure, I drove from so cal to Arizona wheeled in Arizona and Utah, then drove from Utah to So cal. Then I drove from so cal to nor cal (430 miles one way) wheeled the rubicon and drove home, I did that 2 times this summer! I just finished up my first hammers trip for the upcoming hammer season. We wheeled 5 trails in a day then drove 135 miles home.
This year I have driven it all CA, AZ, UT and NV beating it to hell, airing up the tires and driving hours and hours home time and time again. That's why I have been quiet, I have been using it. Fine tuning will continue but I can certainly see light at the end of the tunnel. Sway bars, more shock tuning, finishing the cage, a transfer case swap but enjoying it along the way.
Lastly, I don't daily drive it anymore, but I did daily drive it for years after the SAS and the only reason I don't is because I got a company vehicle from work. A SAS'd H3 can be sensor happy and streetable. Its easy to make it kick ass offroad and its easy to make it kickass for the street but getting it to do both well, that's where the fine tuning becomes important.
Last week
Last weekend
You start wheeling...you break, you modify, you plan something big, you tackle a big project, then a bigger project, you post up with ideas and then have bigger projects and then all of a sudden its done! All the excitement ends and the build slowly works its way down the pages of a forum and disappears. I always wondered, did it end up the way they wanted it? Do they use it? Did they lose interest? Were the modifications a fail? Or do they tell it all works because a ton of time and effort was put into it? I will be truthful and talk about the success's and fails.
I felt myself going down that path as I haven't posted much on here lately but I want to give a "where are they now" update.
So for the new guys on here I started with a bone stock H3. I was around when this forum started. It then got 35's, then a locker, then a 4:1 t case, then a broken diff, broken this, broken that, etc. Then a rancho lift, then those rear springs sagged, then deavers, then back to stock springs but sprung over.
I went through 4 front diffs and one tie rod before I made the leap to the SAS.
I was the 4th spring over I believe and still IFS at the time (after bebe, 4speed and the GM engineered Rancho H3) I probably have 70k miles on the spring over now and I recommend it to the fullest. That modification was a 100% success. The only changes I would ever possibly make is French the spring hangers into the frame to lower it a bit but that modification was awesome.
Then I did the solid axle swap. I think I was the 5th but the 3rd to do a DIY driveway build. Chopping an entire suspension off a vehicle and building it from scratch can be a lot of work but really the work doesn't end when it hits pavement...or it can and leave the end user putting up with things that are undesirable. Its the tuning and slowly scratching things off the list to make it into the vehicle you want!
I recommend the SAS for people that want to rock crawl. People throw around the term, I plan to do a SAS loosely. How much did it cost? how much this, how much that? Honestly, it depends on cost, it depends on it ride quality. it all depends....Was this modification a success? Yes, but it also came with months/years of tuning and making it better. It could have been tuned in months if I had the money but I tuned it slowly over years...Was it ever dangerous? or miserable to drive? No, it wasn't, it rode nice, it was safe out of the box but it could be fine tuned.
Then the 5 cyl motor blew up. I remember getting the envoy with a 5.3 from Zach and people said that the firewall was modified by GM for alphas and it wouldn't fit. Sure enough it did! It just had one pinch seam that needed to be hammered flat. The 5.3 is awesome but is it worth it? For me yes, because it would have been more expensive to sell my H3, buy an alpha then do a SAS and spring over. Is it worth it for a near stock H3? No...I would just take your parts off and buy an Alpha.
Then I did axle swaps, I would say don't do 1 tons unless you plan to run 40's. With a D44 and 10 bolt rear and 37's you can have a lot of fun, you may break something here or there but you will break less then stock! Now I run a custom D70 front I built and an Eaton HO72 rear. They have been awesome and haven't broke yet on 40's.
Then I recently did the cage. Its a hybrid cage that is unfinished. Was that a success or fail? Well it's hard to say if you haven't rolled it. I would say the cage will be a success but being in a rush for Ultimate adventure it made I didn't finish it and that made for extra work in the end. Not tying it into the frame and not beefing up the slider legs that the A pillar attaches to all caused a lot of additional work later. The slider legs bent causing the a pillar to shift up. I knew the 1x1 legs wouldn't hold up in a severe roll but would last in a flop and that had to do because I had 4 weeks to build a rear Dana 70 axle into a front axle, a cage, half doors, and everything else. Well I bent the legs rock crawling (just like my last set) and I had to cut the 3 1x1 .188 wall legs off then I got scared of bending it and went to 2x3 .188 wall tubing for the slider legs. That was a fail! the 2x3 hits the pinch seam and makes a terrible noise against the body. So off they went and I settled on 1.5x3 .25wall and added 7 legs instead of 3. That seems to be a success so far, no bending and no noise. My recommendation is that you do the cage at once, over build it where strength matters (don't add dead tubes to just add weight and no strength) and once its done its done! It will save a ton of additional work.
Steering for the SAS, man the steering is a pain in my ass. Is it unsafe? No, but I bought an old used box then went to another old used box and the steering feel was loose. I went to a new box and ram assist and it was good for a while and then I kept destroying Drag link ends due to abuse off road causing the steering to be loose. The steering was never as tight as I wanted it. I have gotten it better over the years and I am about to finish my last upgrade to it. Heims, I know they don't recommend heims for the street but I have had success with heims on other parts of my rig. Tie Rod End's gradually get ****tier and for me they could get ****ty after one or two off road runs. Heims stay tighter longer, they wont last as long but they will stay tight much longer. I would rather replace them more often then deal with loose steering. If you wheel moderately then TRE's should be a success.
Now for the biggest fail's the tie rod. we have tiny tie rods stock. 16mm tie rods, or .63 inches. I had 1.5in tie rod that was .25wall thick. I never broke one to leave me stranded like a stock tie rod but with that much beef I thought I would never have an issue. WRONG, I bend them every time I go out and am constantly having to adjust the toe after an off road run. The 1.5in .25wall is a success for most but under hard abuse they start to frown at you. So I am going to make it a success with an aluminum tie rod, they deflect and go back to their normal shape unlike steel.
[video=youtube;B601rrLFn-E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B601rrLFn-E[/video]
Another fail, skid plates. Man, I can't keep skid plates straight. I bent 1/4in steel pretty bad. I also reinforced the stock gas tank skid and wrecked that with ease.
I now have a 3/8in skid for the tcase and so far that has held up but its tough to consider it a success yet because I am not happy with the weight it has due to a thick piece of steel. so its a success in terms of not bending but I don't wanna make the rig 8k lbs. the gas tank skid is going to be custom and I will try 1/4in first for weight and I figure it doesn't see near the abuse the t case skid does.
So overall, was the truck a success or fail? I would say success and becoming more of a success as time goes by. Any fail was just a setback and a reason to come up with another solution. Other people have driven my rig, its comfy, rides nice and is drivable for anyone. There are no fears of some quirk happening and causing bad things to happen if someone else is behind the wheel.
This year was a crazy year. I drove it multiple trips to hammers (135 miles each way to some of the gnarliest rock crawling in the country.) Then I drove it to moab (750 miles each way) wheeled a full week and drove 750 miles home. Then I got picked for Ultimate adventure, I drove from so cal to Arizona wheeled in Arizona and Utah, then drove from Utah to So cal. Then I drove from so cal to nor cal (430 miles one way) wheeled the rubicon and drove home, I did that 2 times this summer! I just finished up my first hammers trip for the upcoming hammer season. We wheeled 5 trails in a day then drove 135 miles home.
This year I have driven it all CA, AZ, UT and NV beating it to hell, airing up the tires and driving hours and hours home time and time again. That's why I have been quiet, I have been using it. Fine tuning will continue but I can certainly see light at the end of the tunnel. Sway bars, more shock tuning, finishing the cage, a transfer case swap but enjoying it along the way.
Lastly, I don't daily drive it anymore, but I did daily drive it for years after the SAS and the only reason I don't is because I got a company vehicle from work. A SAS'd H3 can be sensor happy and streetable. Its easy to make it kick ass offroad and its easy to make it kickass for the street but getting it to do both well, that's where the fine tuning becomes important.
Last week
Last weekend
