06 H3's Fabrication Corner.

[06 H3]

Thanks. I feel it's much better then last time. Just need to do the bottom end and decide how many more crossmembers I should have

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[3Hummers]

Looking good Chris.

 

[06 H3]

Thanks guys. Its just progress is so damn slow. I had family from ny visiting, working extra hrs on winter break and catching up with friends takes a lot of time. I really need a good 8 hrs straight to get this thing looking somewhat complete

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[theBroken]

My advice is to not build it on the floor (if you are). Most concrete slabs look flat but are not. It might work for doing something small but something long that that you really need to get it on a level working area. Some saw horses, 2x4's and wedges might be the cheapest way to make a table. Plus with a wooden table you can easily put it away if needed. I use a metal table but it's very heavy and don't move.

 

[06 H3]

thanks it hasnt been welded yet but I plan on getting it on a level surface...trying to figure out what surface though...

 

[Pappibri]

Nice job on the projects you have done. I am patiently awaiting the outcome of your latest... I have the room and the ability, just need a little more ingenuity. I think I am going to try and fab up a UCP... My Father in law is a retired engineer who designed and built his own house and is good at figuring all the angles... He is very particular and precise.. Thanks again for touching base.

 

[06 H3]

Here is an update on my projects. I am falling behind! lol

The roof rack: The guy I was building it for got mad that it required a lot of metal...sorry I am not building a 2in by 2in rack. He didnt wanna buy anymore metal after I finished the base so I bought the metal from him and will be building it for my brothers JK or a friend.

Slider project #1: My brother and I went down to off road evolution to buy the EVO sliders...HOLY CRAP THAT PLACE IS SICK! My brothers JK and the H3 are dwarfed by everything there (except the one bone stock JK getting work done) 37's are the smallest tires you will see and coilovers on everything. They were so cool too. The guys that work there are jeep snobs they are down to earth. I am an off road evolution fanatic now! Anyways back on topic...the sliders are weld on.

Slider Project #2: A friend of mine does fab work too and wheels a YJ. His neighbor is around 70-75 and wheels with us...hope I can still wheel at that age! He is building sliders for his JK that can also be used as a step for his old age. While building it he landed a job that is in his career field (he just graduated college) so hes busy as expected and it takes up a lot of his time so he asked me to finish em for him. everything is already tacked I just gotta weld em.

BUSY BUSY in my garage lol

 

[06 H3]

Just got back from a buddy's house, he is building his neighbor sliders for his JK. He is a good person to learn from in fab so I always come home with a few more tips and tricks in the world of fab.

Practiced some welding on the sliders.

Here are the sliders mocked up...While we prefer having the sliders angle up for better clearance and they will look and perform better angled up these sliders are for an older wheeler. Hes in his 70's so getting in and out of his rubicon is tough so they need to act as a step so this is how they will be.

one end is angled out a tad more so it can follow the body lines of the JK. I didnt do the tube bending part. Just the welding...I had trouble welding with my welder as I am still trying to find that sweet spot for metals. my buddies welder was setup for this metal already for I gave it a try and was quite happy.

 

[06 H3]

My problem is that I am constantly jumping around from project to project! I need to do one, finish one and then continue. I also did another small project that was done to my brothers bumper for the safety of small passenger cars behind him lol That will be for another post...

 

[06 H3]

Had some extra time on my hands yesterday so I got one of my brothers EVO JK weld on sliders done yesterday.

 

[06 H3]

just hours before I leave for moab my brother comes home with a small project. We both play lacrosse and his coach has one of those bow net backstops so you dont have to run a mile to chase a ball if you miss the net. One of the welds broke at practice and his coach said he just passed the warranty on it...idk what his plans were but my brother went up to him after practice and told him I can weld it. I was pretty happy with my welds this go around

Some random picture of a bownet online...

My weld...

 

[06 H3]

Scarsman, bebe, 4speed, speedy, silverzuki or any other fabricators out there. For cutting metal I have been using a plain ole angle grinder with a cut off wheel but have been thinking of using another tool. What would be better oxy acetylene for cutting or a plasma cutter? I am leaning towards oxy for price but are there any significant advantages on using a plasma? I think my main concern with oxy is heat build up warping the metal...Is that a problem with oxy?

TIA,
Chris

 

[Scarsman]

Very good questions! As with everything, they all have their pros and cons. I'll list a few for you to consider. There are many points to look at, but these are a few of the basics.

Cut-off wheels:

Pros:
Very easy to use
Able to be pretty precise
No expensive equipment required
Wheels can be found pretty cheap

Cons:
Slow
Noisy
Not good for cutting curves or short lines
Really slow on thicker metals


Oxy/acetylene:

Pros:
Relatively low cost
Multi-use:
--Can weld, even very thin metal
--Can heat metal for bending, shaping, freeing stuck bolts, etc.
No extra machinery needed to use it
Can cut any curve or shape and also holes


Cons:
Requires a little more skill to get nice clean cuts
It does put more heat into your material
Higher fire hazard
Somewhat expensive to get set up (with good regulators and tips. DON'T GET CHEAP HARBOR FREIGHT TYPES!!! )



Plasma:

Pros:
They're AWESOME!!!!
Faster cutting
Less heat build-up in material due to faster cutting
Very clean precise cuts
Cut any curve, shape, or hole
Able to cut multiple metals, steel, aluminum, stainless, copper, brass, etc.
Lower fire hazard than Oxy/Acetylene


Cons:
Most expensive option
High volume air compressor needed
Air needs to be VERY clean and dry, so usually need an air filter/dryer
220V circuit needed, curcuit amps depend on size of unit
Single purpose tool: only good for cutting


If you have any questions ask away. I have both oxy/acet and plasma, as well as a horizontal bandsaw. And I still use cutoff wheels as well. Also, consider what you are cutting. If you are mostly cutting tubing, channel, angle, etc, then some kind of saw will be far superior and more useful than either kind of torch. There are "hot cut" chop saws that use abrasive wheels, "cold cut" or "dry cut" chop saws that use carbide toothed blades, and then there are horizontal band saws. I like my band saw a lot because I can set my material up in it and walk away from it while it is cutting. With chop saws you have to cut each cut yourself. It really all comes down to exactly what you are wanting to accomplish. If you have questions about the different kinds of saws, let me know.

 

[HUMMER INVESTMENTS]

Very good learning material in this thread! Thanks Chris and everyone else for info!

 

[06 H3]

Thanks scarsman! For now my primary use is cutting steel. While I can and have done circles and angles with an angle grinder it doesn't end up perfect and once that straight blade gets thrown on an angle you can kiss that blade goodbye!

I guess the real question is what should I buy first? I will probably end up with both in my garage one day. The biggest issue I currently have is space. It's a 2 car garage shared with my parents and siblings so room is limited, either way I want quality...when I have my own house one day and I want a yard big enough to where I can put a small shop in the back, aka the man cave! I was thinking oxy first just for price and current use, cutting metal. I will get into aluminum and other types later on. I did take an oxy acetylene class at my college last year as an extra fun class and am decent with oxy. I hope to take more classes later down the road but for now I need to focus on my classes I need to take for a degree.

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[Scarsman]

Well, I would go with oxy/acet first. One, for the versatility of it, and two, you don't need to worry about 220V power in your dad's garage! And with space being a concern you don't need to worry about a compressor and filter/dryer set-up.

Go down to your local welding store and ask about the different size bottles available. Then you can decide what will fit your garage best. Keep an eye on your local craigslist. You can often find complete setups. If you can find some older Victor regulators and tips, I would take those any day over new ones.

Another lower cost option is oxy/propane. Propane is not as hot as acetylene, but is cheaper. If you are not working with really thick steel it would work just fine for you and save you some money.

 

[06 H3]

Id rather go with oxy/ace the added cost is worth the power. No worries on the garage I already had our electrician add a 220v outlet for my welder.

would I worry about warpage with the metal? Remember the warpage on the rack?

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[Scarsman]

Well, yes, any time you introduce heat to metal there will be warpage. You still get warpage with a plasma, just less than with gas. There are things you can do to work with it though, and the thicker the metal the less problem you will have. Just remember this: When you heat, whether from a cut or a weld bead, the area heated will shrink as it cools. The finishing end of your weld or cut will have the most heat, and will pull more than the start end. Imagine this: you are welding a square frame out of square tubing cut 45* on the ends, (to make a 90* corner). If you weld your top and bottom joints from the outside in you will see all your sides bow inwards when they are cooled. If you weld the top and bottom from the inside out, then the sides will bow out when they cool. It is kind of fun to play around with this, and watch it happen.

Now say you welded outside in, and now want to get rid of the bow. If you take your oxy/acet torch and heat several spots along the outer edge of the side just till they start to turn red and then let them cool, you can watch the side bow back out to straight while it cools. You can also heat the whole area around the corners where the welds are and do the same thing.

With cuts, your cut edge is going to shrink when it cools. You can relieve this stress by peening the edge with a hammer. Or you can reduce the effect by preheating the whole part.

 

[06 H3]

I have some more questions for all of you fab guys. Flux core vs shielded gas mig welding. I can run flux or gas with my mig and on stuff with 3/16 or bigger I sometimes have trouble getting good penetration. I recently did 1/4in with flux and the difference was amazing. It really penetrated into the metal, you could just feel it and see it when welding. Am I better off staying with flux when using 3/16 and 1/4? and using gas for thinner materials?

I have felt a difference with flux compared to gas and was wondering if next time I have frame or axle work am I better off running flux? I dont mind cleaning spatter, I just want the best penetration so nothing breaks.

A local 4x4 shop mentioned to me that .35 wire may be too thick when welding 1/4 with gas and .30 may help get better penetration...Does that sound right? Just trying to gauge when I should be using one over the other.

 

[atvspeed4]

I always use flux core for 3/16" -1/4" with my welder. Sounds like we have a similar sized welder. The company that does all of our production welding though uses shielded gas for everything but they are set up to do so.

 

[Expendable]

I prefer shield gas welding. I can weld cleaner that way. but that was at Glendale Community College. I have used flux core with my dad's harbor freight welder and got more cold spots with it and not as clean of a bed. but at the same time I was underneath a trailer welding so the sparks were falling on me (I only have one of the front leather protective things. so the sparks were falling into my arm pit area.)

 

[Scarsman]

This is actually more of a question of the size of your welder vs the material thicknness. What welder do you have, and what is the amp rating?

As you have noticed, flux core gets more heat/penetration than MIG (gas). You can weld 3/4" steel all day long with MIG if you have a big enough machine. Flux core is just dirty, there is no way around it. And it simply will not make as nice a looking bead as MIG, especially with the small machines.

As for the wire size, basically the thicker the wire the hotter it will burn. That is why the thinner your material the smaller the wire you want to run. So, you would actually end up with less penetration if you use smaller wire. Now depending on your welder, .035" might me a bit too big for it, in which case you would get better results with .030". That may be what they are meaning. Even though your welder will run .035", and it works fine on thinner stuff, the machine may not have the amps to do .035" on thicker stuff. There's a lot of little things that come into play when you are pushing the limits of your machines capabilities.

From the sounds of it, you should probably stick with flux core on the 3/16"-1/4" with the machine you have. It will be dirty and messy and need more clean up, but that is the only way to get a good solid weld.

 

[Sneakysilver]

I have been wanting to build my own rack since I got the h3 and saw how much to buy one cost. Only thing is I have oxygen and acetylene (work supply's it free) I have done some welding. Made a few hitches (mostly for looks not towing) but I'm confident in building the frame and bed of the rack just questioning how to mount it. But can't wait to see your finished product!

 

[06 H3]

Thanks guys for the info.

Scarsman, I have the Lincoln power mig 180c. It's not the Home Depot version. That one is similar in a few aspects but different internally and overall the quality of internal components is the difference with mine to the Home Depot version. Bebe suggested it a while back as its versatile around the shop.

There have often been times where friends who have used it asked if something is wrong with it...only when using thicker metal on gas though. Flux burns in you can feel it. The 4x4 shop I spoke to said I should be able to burn in 3/16 with my 180 as he can with his 175. It's always acted weird with 3/16 and up with gas. Ill try the .30 wire and get back to you guys

 

[Scarsman]

Ok, Lincoln's claim for that machine is up to 3/16" for MIG and up to 1/2" for flux core. When they state these numbers, they are absolute maximum under perfect conditions, and will require multiple passes. Like all marketing, they purposely make things as rosy as possible. In reality, those numbers are pushing it, and you will not get optimum results. Different kinds of joints require different amounts of heat, so you might get a good weld on a butt joint with well beveled edges, but have a lack of penetration on a fillet joint. Also the orientation of the weld can affect it too. A flat horizontal weld will get better penetration than trying to do a vertical horizontal or vertical up or down weld. You can “cheat” a little and help the machine by pre-heating the part before welding. It doesn’t take much, just 150-200* will make a big difference. This works for small jobs, but if you are trying to do very much welding this way it starts taking much extra time and the expense of gas. The short of it is that 3/16"-1/4" is pushing the real world limits of your machine, and your results will vary depending on many parameters. Hope that info helps a little.