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6L80e 6spd Conversion

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Do you know if the 6L80e output shaft is shared with the 4L80e?

Should contact these guys:

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E_to_4L80E_Swap.htm



That would be great if that were the case. I honestly don't know if they do or not, but judging from my 6l80e output shaft model, it looks different.





Going to pursue a few different options today. Just need to get this thing done ASAP, as I was planning on driving it out to the SEMA show and hitting Moab on the way back. LOL


Here are the current options on the table:

* Full custom input shaft for BW 4494 transfer case - At this point, that's looking LESS promising due to complexity...

* Cut down 4494 input shaft, weld on 32sp section from 6L80e transfer case input shaft, all done on a lathe so it's true

* Atlas 2spd transfer case - Lose full-time AWD, but keep 4:1 tcase gearing

* Run stock 6l80e transfer case (driver drop) and do a solid axle conversion - I don't want much lift, would still lose full-time AWD as well as 4:1 tcase AND front e-locker. So that's seeming less and less convincing.

* Have call in to Borg Warner - Hoping they may have a 4494 input shaft "blank" laying around somewhere??? I'm not holding my breath.
 

atvspeed4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,211
Location
massachusetts
Might be worth reaching out to them and say, look I have the drawings done for the output shaft to swap a 4L60e to a 6l80e. Maybe since they specialize in these parts and swaps they would get them done in quantity and you can get either a free one or discounted output shaft
 

High Five H2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,627
Location
West Texas
why would you lose full time 4wd using the 6l80 transfer case? couldn't you just use one from an H2?

Another idea - I looked at some parts diagrams for the H2 and H3 T case, and they're very similar. from what I remember, most of the internal components even had the same part number. maybe the input shaft or whatever it connects to in the 4493 or 4494 could be swapped out.
 

amrg

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,317
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Qatar
H2 is driver side, H3 is passenger side?

Really hoping this could work out, not really interested in upgrading the 4L60e for what Im planning...
 
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adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
why would you lose full time 4wd using the 6l80 transfer case? couldn't you just use one from an H2?

Another idea - I looked at some parts diagrams for the H2 and H3 T case, and they're very similar. from what I remember, most of the internal components even had the same part number. maybe the input shaft or whatever it connects to in the 4493 or 4494 could be swapped out.


Was stating that with the transfer case that came attached to my 6l80e, I would lose full-time awd. H2 case would work in that aspect.
However, I had assumed that all H2s came with the 4L80e transmission until 2008 when they switched to 6L80e.
But from my research, it looks like prior to 2008, they used 4L60e? If that's the case, their t-case would be 27 spline as well. Maybe I just looked it up wrong...?


Anywho, I spoke with Atlas. Definitely an option that they can put together for me. Retail price for a setup for H3 with 6L80e is ~$3200. That's 4.3:1 low range and cable shifters with integrated switches to let the PCM/BCM know that it's in 4wd.

I also have a call scheduled with another gear manufacturer. Hoping I can luck out and they will say "NO PROBLEM" to making the new style input shaft. We shall see.
 

High Five H2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,627
Location
West Texas
Bw 4484, but it looks like 03-07 and 08-09 aren't interchangeable. going to do some more googling.

best I could find was this catalog:

http://retech-usa.com/docs/UniversalTransferCaseCatalog.pdf

08-09 are 32 spline, 03-07 are 27. I'm pretty sure the H3 and H2 t cases are very similar. maybe swapping the guts from a 08-09 H2 case to a H3 case is a solution. At one point I got curious and looked at a parts diagram for both cases and it looked like most of their part #s were the same. I have also heard that they are both very different transfer cases.

Any volunteers for someone to take both apart and see? they're only about $1200 at a junk yard. bueller?

edit - another parts catalog. H2 and H3 cases share a shift motor, so that's good. no electronics to worry about. http://www.areds.com/wp-content/uploads/GM-Transfer-Case-CD-Web1.pdf

43th edit - it doesn't look like they will share internals :gaah:
 
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CaseyS

Well-Known Member
Messages
755
Location
Louisiana
How does the major diameter of the 27 spline compare to the minor diameter of the 32 spline. Can you just take an 80 output shaft and turn it down and respline it? I would probably re harden it and or cryo it after doing that if its possible.

Of course this would mean tearing down the trans completely to get to the shaft. But you either have to open the xfer case or the trans either way to make this work.
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
How does the major diameter of the 27 spline compare to the minor diameter of the 32 spline. Can you just take an 80 output shaft and turn it down and respline it? I would probably re harden it and or cryo it after doing that if its possible.

Of course this would mean tearing down the trans completely to get to the shaft. But you either have to open the xfer case or the trans either way to make this work.


I honestly don't trust myself enough to tear down a good working trans and have it still work after reassembly.


Meeting with a local gear manufacturer tomorrow. According to our conversations yesterday, and a review of the part/drawings, they said there would be no problem machining the new input gear from scratch.
Taking them the stock tcase gear so that they can check material/hardness. Hopefully I can get a price tomorrow as well. As long as it's under $1500, I'll jump on it. If over, going to have to do some thinking.
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Dang..................... Lol


Got the input pulled out of my tcase tonight, and it's different than the one I have in my model.
I must have the standard 2:1 transfer case in the model. Hopefully I can get the 4:1, or the machinists can reverse engineer mine.

Mine actually has the oil slingers on the outside of the shaft, so that's easier to machine. But it looks like my splined area is a blind hole. So that makes it a lot harder to broach. BUT, upon further review, it looks like what I'm seeing is actually a cap on the end of the needle bearing that's pressed in there. Just something to seal off the hole and keep oil out of the splines.


Also note that the helical gear on my input shaft is quite a bit larger than the model.
The internals of my 4:1 case were in excellent condition, and it's beefier than I had expected.


Take a look at the pics:
























 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
If anyone that's ever torn into one of these cases has some suggestions on what to replace "while I'm in there", I'm all ears.

Thanks!
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Which shift fork are you referring to? They all "look" metal to me. Only plastic I see is the sliding ring collar that one of the shift forks ride against.
 

05Mudiak

Well-Known Member
Messages
731
Location
Lake Charles, LA
wow I'm excited, I kinda started the research on this swap a while ago with advanced adapters when they advertised the swap. I believe it's still on their website. Life happened and I kinda dropped the project. But next summer when I'm back I'll be looking into this and one ton axles (maybe one ton).

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

IISPEEDYII

Well-Known Member
Messages
478
Location
Pennsylvania
He's talking about the shift fork that shifts from 4 hi. To 4 hi lock and 4 low lock. It's plastic and from usage it breaks down and breaks eventually.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Do you have any pictures of a 6L80E output shaft? I might be able to get that made. That is how they do it on the 4l60e- 4l80e swap.


Ok, at this point that's looking like the most likely option!
A few pages back there are pics showing engagement and the opposite shaft is the 6L80e. Looks pretty simple.


Just met with the gear cutter/machinist. He ran all of the calculations on what I have, and it's nothing standard. It's a mod helical gear. So that means a special cutter would have to be machined first.

Bottom line, 6-8wks lead time and $4500-$5k for a new input shaft.
Rockwell hardness is C60, so no welding new end on it either.
Good times.
 

4speedfunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,250
Location
Tardville
I think it was only plastic on 06-07 h3's, 08 and later got metal forks I believe.

Not true. I have seen several 08 (including mine) with plastic shift forks. In fact...I cannot find ANY proof that GM ever offered a metal fork for the BW3393/3394. All GM forks I have been able to find are plastic. The aluminum replacement fork that so many refer to is aftermarket (made by Dorman), and I suspect many cases have been rebuilt at the dealer using the Dorman fork. Perhaps the factory eventually started outsourcing the Dorman fork at the assembly plant? Whatever the case...the alum. fork is clearly a better piece, regardless of where it comes from. The case in the photos already has an aluminum fork but, for $20...I would replace it due to the wear on the shift pin (look closely at the fork photo).

MORE INFO:

*Early cases had the fill plug located too low, and this causes an oil starvation problem. So if you have an early case...fill it from the speed sensor hole.

*The Alpha cases are slightly different for the exhaust routing...but it is very minor and has no effect on internals.

*Later cases have the internal snubber added to control chain-slap. This snubber likes to get loose, flop around inside, and cause havoc on the internals. (The one pictured here is an early case and does not have the snubber).

*Even though there are many different part numbers...all H3 t-cases interchange with all H3's. This includes 4:1/2:1 versions, V8's/L5's, and sticks/automatics. However, I do not know if the gearsets can be swapped between the 3393 (2:1) and the 3394 (4:1). I would think this is possible but, you must use all the matching ratio's parts. I doubt if the cases themselves are any different between the two versions.

*Download the GM rebuild instructions from Schwarttzy...very helpful.

*Definitely install a new chain and a metal shift fork. The chain is directional, and must be installed in the correct direction.

*Pay close attention to the planetary gears when you re-assemble it. They must indexed to the proper location, or the case will bind in 4HI-Street. There are marks on the planetary gears that must be aligned with marks on the sun-gear (look closely at the planetary photo)

*Lastly...the BW3393/3394 case is magnesium (not aluminum). It is very soft and reacts with dissimilar metals, so use sealant on the case bolts, speed sensor, and encoder motor where they come into contact with the case. This will prevent them from corroding and fusing themselves to the case. Go easy on torquing the bolts of the case-halves...they're easy to strip...15 ft-lbs is plenty.
 
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adventr

Well-Known Member
Messages
500
Location
United States
Awesome info! Thanks a ton!
On my phone now but will process all of that this evening.



Just spoke with my transmission guy, and apparently the 6L80e is easy to tear down. He would only charge me $200 to swap out the output shaft.
So... Now machining the 32 spline shaft down to 27 spline is looking like a good option.
Lol
 

atvspeed4

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,211
Location
massachusetts
Ok, at this point that's looking like the most likely option!
A few pages back there are pics showing engagement and the opposite shaft is the 6L80e. Looks pretty simple.


Just met with the gear cutter/machinist. He ran all of the calculations on what I have, and it's nothing standard. It's a mod helical gear. So that means a special cutter would have to be machined first.

Bottom line, 6-8wks lead time and $4500-$5k for a new input shaft.
Rockwell hardness is C60, so no welding new end on it either.
Good times.

Let me know if you need help with the output shaft, we work with some awesome machine shops.
 
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