My 5.3 Engine swap

[humvee]

Need to update the list. Get some Oil Pan parts action going

 

[humvee]

They went against my instructions and removed the pan before the pickup arrived. They got the O-seal from the dealer.

They said there was no leak past the old seal. So that couldn't possibly be the problem.

The new (red) seal seems to be a thicker. I was at work today so these are images that they have sent.

The custom pickup tube inlet sits 1 inch above the bottom of the pan. They said the old one measures exactly the same. I don't know how they could've gotten that.
They did not check oil pressure like I asked.

 

[humvee]

No luck with the new seal as far the smoke is concerned. Then again they confirmed the old seal wasn't leaking.
Oil light didn't come on when I tested it today though, but that could come back with time.

Parked it, waiting for the OEM pickup tube. They'll have to redo all the work to give me peace of mind that this isn't the cause of my problems.

If this fails, I'm looking at the following in this order:

- The vacuum receiver on top of the intake manifold (broken and "fixed")
- value cover.
- Head Gasket leak.

Thoughts?

 

[CaseyS]

Smoking generally indicates oil getting into the combustion chambers. Two most common ways are piston rings or valve seals. I would not think head gasket at this point.

Silly question, did you see the engine run before the conversion and if not did it come from a reliable source? In short are you sure this is a new problem and not an existing one?

Check the oil pressure and if its good run it for a bit and check the oil consumption. Burning oil shouldn't hurt the engine anymore if it has good oil pressure.

 

[humvee]

You are correct.. I'm just shooting in the dark son.

The motor was on amrg's hummer before he put in the LS3. It was in perfect running condition, with around 90k miles on the ODO.

They promised to check the oil pressure today. What reading am I hoping for here?

 

[650Hawk]

Smoking generally indicates oil getting into the combustion chambers. Two most common ways are piston rings or valve seals. I would not think head gasket at this point.

Could be wrong, but I don't think smoke from the dipstick pipe could be from oil in the combustion chamber; the dipstick pipe is in the bottom end (crankcase), not the top end.

 

[CaseyS]

Ahh, are we smoking out the tailpipe or just from the dipstick vent? I assumed it was from the tailpipe.

Smoke from the dipstick is likely caused by crankcase pressure which would point to either the PCV system or blowby.

 

[humvee]

Just the dipstick. I think the oil pressure light and smoke are two different issues.

- O-ring seal solves the oil light (hopefully)
- PVC issue solves the dipstick smoke

Blow-by would mean the engine seals are shot due to running hot, not high mileage as it only got 90k miles on it?
It averages around 95 - 115 degrees C.
I'd have to rebuild, and that would be an issue.


My friend's YJ runs at 70 C, if his gauge reading is accurate, which he says it is.

 

[JPaul]

70C?? If that is true then he is running his engine FAR too cold. That's only 158F, so unless he's not only running a 160F (71C) thermostat (Which I don't know if they make those for the YJ's) but his radiator is oversized and fan clutch is stuck on and the thermostat is stuck open, and it's probably 50F (10C) out as well. Otherwise the heat saturation in the radiator should keep it warmer than that in the temperatures you guys are at over there, if his fan is working properly and the radiator stock sized, even with a stuck open thermostat.

Really, that is just way too cold. Your temps (203F to 239F/95C to 115C) are about what I would expect for a modern engine in a hot environment. I think those are OK, though that upper limit is a littler higher than I would want, but it's not unexpected given your conditions and vehicle. If he's reading 70C either his cooling system is screwed up, or his gauge is broken. From what I've found the YJ should be running around 210F (about 99C).

 

[GreatDaneHummer]

Is this amount of issues normal for an engine swap? There are companies like Mash motors that do this stuff all the time and bang out a beautiful oem looking finished product in 2-3 weeks...? I would think it should be rather mild difficulty with the H3 Alpha components being available? What am I missing here?

 

[JPaul]

Is this amount of issues normal for an engine swap? There are companies like Mash motors that do this stuff all the time and bang out a beautiful oem looking finished product in 2-3 weeks...? I would think it should be rather mild difficulty with the H3 Alpha components being available? What am I missing here?

Using a used engine without at least rebuilding it instead of a crate motor (or a good rebuild), relying on other people who apparently have little idea as to what they are doing to do the work for you, being on the other side of the world from where the H3's were mainly sold and built, and just general bad luck.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[humvee]

Spot on, Mash probably has some experienced mechanical engineers who have done dozens of rebuilds. That kind of experience can help you see a few steps ahead, big no no's.

Surely they wouldn't make mistakes like breaking the vacuum pipe off the intake manifold.

But thats all we got.


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[CaseyS]

Is this amount of issues normal for an engine swap? There are companies like Mash motors that do this stuff all the time and bang out a beautiful oem looking finished product in 2-3 weeks...? I would think it should be rather mild difficulty with the H3 Alpha components being available? What am I missing here?

Swaps are not easy. Period. The devil is always in the details.

Once you have done one swap, if you were to do a second one EXACTLY the same, you can probably cut your hours in half. The subsequent ones after that you probably know where all the traps are and can plan accordingly. That's where the big shops can leverage the efficiency.

This is what, only the second diy v8 swap, and both guys have taken slightly different paths. So its partly an r&d project as much as it is straightforward mechanic work. Some of the details are worked out like the motor mounts and wiring harness, but others like trans combos are still building the group knowledge base.

If I were to do another 4bt build, I think I have good enough notes and drawings I think I could be fairly efficient at it and avoid a lot of the trial and error I went through on this one.

 

[4speedfunk]

So true. I have done enough SAS's now that I know exactly what works and what doesn't. Anytime you tackle mods like this, the first one is always slow, costly, and frustrating. But hang in there and be persistent...you'll get it done eventually. Then after you're done, really good mechanics will end up asking themselves..."If I had to do it again...what would I do different?" An honest, self-assessment of your own work, is critical. This is the first sign of a great mechanic, not content to settle for "good enough"...and not blinded by his own ego.

Like I said in another post...you can learn a lot of things but, giving a $hit must be bred into who you are. Guys that care, are often frustrated with everyone around them for their lack of detail. They are pretty much disgusted with anything less than perfection, and it usually spills over into other aspects of their lives. This makes day-to-day life sometimes hard to deal with, as well as interaction with other people (wives, kids, etc.). Some of the best mechanics are way out there, on the fringes of sanity. I meet guys like this from time to time, and sometime think to myself "what a freak!"...until I get to know them, and see what they can do. Then you sort of understand why they are that way.

 

[Hunner]

Getting philosophical now are we? but true sayins...........I think I are one. (we talk that way because we can)

Time to go sailing/cruising, you will meet people that have gotten to where they are because of that philosophy.

 

[humvee]

Like I said in another post...you can learn a lot of things but, giving a $hit must be bred into who you are. Guys that care, are often frustrated with everyone around them for their lack of detail.

Thanks, it is true. Pulling my truck out of there as soon as Im back. They did well to install and fabricate what they did. Now we need someone with GM engine experience to sort out the bugs.


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[humvee]

All done, apart from the pcv and some pcm o2 related code deletes, I can finally call my swap a success.

Thank you all for the invaluable information you provided.
Everyone that contributed, Casey and Chris especially, I owe you.

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[06 H3]

Glad to here it! I know I did not contribute much on the thread but humvee and I talked a lot about the swap via phone and text. If anyone ever needs help you can see my thread or talk to me and next time I'll try to contribute more on their thread

 

[CaseyS]

On paper, this should be very straight forward. But I need to be careful.

From post #1 in this thread. :giggle:

Congrats. Although it is never truly finished. Always something else to tweak or upgrade.

People think that sourcing the engine, getting the mounts and dropping it in the bay is the hard part. In reality, that's only a small portion of the project. The time (and money) killer is in all the small detail things that you either need to source or build yourself to get things to work. $10 of hardware, $50 of brackets, $75 of hose, wait for the mail order, get online to find a part or figure out how something works, tracing down bugs...it all adds up over time. It takes a certain level of patience to work through and complete a major project like this.

Good work and you're welcome for the help.

 

[humvee]

You couldn't have said it soon enough. New list of issues:

- Fuel lines were not extended and are resting on the exhaust manifold, burning out.

- Gear selector lever is overstretched and breaking apart. The one that comes with the Alpha is different, comes in 2 parts and has different mounting accessories on the tranny.

- I hear a terrible knocking from the lower end of the motor, consistent with the speed of the rpm. Hoping its dirt and Seafoam will sort this out today. If not I'm in for a ride.

- New harness was routed wrong, in contact with the exhaust in two places.

- driver side manifold is resting on the body mount bracket, and causing vibration.

- PCV receiver on the intake manifold is still not fixed, and smoke is coming out of the oil dipstick.


Might still be a while away from completing this conversion safely.

 

[JPaul]

I thought the Alpha used the same transmission as the I-5's, why would the selector be any different between the two?

I hope you didn't actually pay anyone to do this swap, they've done a terrible job. If you did pay them I hope they are covering all of the costs with fixing these blunders. And I'm sorry to say but I highly doubt SeaFoam is going to fix any kind of knocking you're hearing from the bottom end. That's almost definitely going to be a bad bearing which means a tear down and rebuild. Which means pulling the motor back out. Which sucks big time after all of this. And now that I know you have what sounds like rod knock, I'm betting it isn't really the PCV valve that is causing the smoke to come from the oil dipstick tube... :gaah:

 

[humvee]

We had a work agreement between our two businesses, but regardless he was the biggest beneficiary.

The selector is different primarily because in the alpha, it has to clear the driver-side down pipe (I believe).

knocking noise went away after i reset the codes and reflashed. My knowledge tells me that should be a coincidence.

Seafoam done, used approx 1/6th of the can, very little white smoke came out the back. Was expecting a lot more drama, but I'm happy.

Theres a leak that I can't properly see coming from where the transfer case meets the tranny. Need to sort that out too.


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[humvee]

II'm betting it isn't really the PCV valve that is causing the smoke to come from the oil dipstick tube... :gaah:

What do you think it is?
Getting ready to seafoam the crankcase.


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[JPaul]

I'm surprised resetting the codes and reflashing got lower end knocking to go away. I could understand if it was pinging, but lower end knocking? Seems very odd. Did you rebuild the motor before you installed it? If not you might want to drop the oil pan and verify the bearings are all still nice and tight and that none of the rods are loose.

If you were getting lower end knock and smoke coming from your oil then you might be cooking your oil somehow. Unless you've gotten water in your oil or have a ton of blow by past the rings, I really don't think you should be seeing much vapor coming from the oil pan. If you think it really is the PCV then it could be a lot of blow by, you could try removing the valve and just hooking the hose directly so that it pulls a vacuum.

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[humvee]

I'm surprised resetting the codes and reflashing got lower end knocking to go away.

Paul, appreciate your input. I actually replied to this before I flew away on work but it didn't seem to go through.
It's defined a coincidence, I also seafoamed and did a number of other things, so I don't know who the real hero is there.

That said, the truck has been in and out of the garage since then, every time I fix a leak, another shows up. The most recent leak seems to be the power steering fluid.

Got the AC fixed, turns out it was just that I only installed one of the two pusher fans up front. When I installed the other one, works like a charm.

I'm still getting smoke from my oil dipstick and filler cap. Mechanic said he did a leak-down test while I was away and found that my motor is no good, told me pcv checks out. I'm having a tough time trusting him, he struggled to give me test result numbers. He might be right, no other mechanic has been able to diagnose this.

I really need to get this issue settled.


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