The Gun Control Debate - A Place for Your Perspective

[58Bisc]

This is a repost from another site. This is only a small sample of the quotes of our founding Fathers. Things are messed up when we have a government that gives free AUTOMATIC WEAPONS to Mexican DrugLords, the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamist/Warlords & foreign Muslim citizens to overthrow Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia & Syria that end up kill scores of hundres & THOUSANDS of inocent Americans & foreigners yet LAWFUL AMERICAN CITIZENS HERE are fixing to have our US Constitutional GUARENTEED 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS INFRINGED/CURBED by an over/reaching centralized TYRRANICAL FEDERAL GOVERNMENT... That is not from me but from our FOUNDERS: Right to Bear Arms Quotes •"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms..." - Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Member of the First U.S. Senate. •"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." - Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Peirce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850. 2, col. 2. •"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878 •"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Senator Hubert H. Humprey (D-Minnesota) •"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Ghandi •"...to disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." - George Mason •"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" - Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d Ed. Philadelphia, 1836. •"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press." - Thomas Jefferson •"What the subcommittee on the Constitution uncovered was clear -- and long-lost proof that the Second Amendment to our Constitution was intended as an individual right of the American citizen to keep and carry arms in a peaceful manner, for the protection of himself, his family, and his freedom." - Senator Orrin Hatch, Chairman, Subcommittee on the Constitution, Preface, "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms" •"If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, and the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976 - establishes the repeated, complete, and inevitable failure of gun laws to control crime." -- Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) quoted from "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Report of the Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution, Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, February 1982, p. vii." •"Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ...the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Tench Coxe, 20 Feb 1788; James Madison Quotes on the Second Amendment: "The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison of Virginia, The Federalist, No. 46) "The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country...." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789]) "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed ― unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (The Federalist, No. 46 at 243- 244) "Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation.... Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (The Federalist, No. 46) "It is not certain that with this aid alone [possession of arms], they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to posses the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will, and direct the national force; and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned, in spite of the legions which surround it." (The Federalist, No. 46) __________________ THOMAS JEFFERSON:1."When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." BEN FRANKLIN:2."Upon exiting the Constitutional Convention. Benjamin Franklin was asked by a woman, "What kind of government have you given us?" Franklin responded with one of the most famous quotations in history, "A Republic if you can keep it." (Ask most Americans today what kind of government they have and most will respond a democracy.) MAY GOD HELP US RESTORE OUR REPUBLIC ! ! !

 

[Dennis]

I have been pondering this thread for a few days now..I have strong personal views about gun ownership here in the USA..I Believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment and all that it implies..I do however don't think we need as private citizens Full automatic weapons..semi-auto's are good enough....And if one style is banned like a Bushmaster then the Semi-auto Shot guns will be next, etc.....then it's the proverbial snowball rolling down hill..it won't stop until it hits the bottom and has taken all the countryside with it..

So this article came to me in an email and reaffirmed my personal stand on the 2nd Amendment..


*You're sound asleep when you heara thump outside your bedroom door.
*Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.
*At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.

*With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.

*You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it...

*In the darkness, you make out two shadows.

*One holds something that looks like a crowbar.
*When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.
*The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.

*One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

*As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.

*In your country, most guns were outlawed yearsbefore,and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless.
*Yours was never registered.

*Police arrive and inform youthat the second burglar has died.

*They arrest you for First Degree Murderand Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

*When you talk to your attorney, he tellsyou not to worry:authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.

*"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.

*"Only ten-to-twelve years,” he replies, as if that's nothing.

*"Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."

*The next day, the shooting is the leadstory in the local newspaper.

*Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys.

*Their friends and relatives can’t find an unkind word to say about them.

*Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times.

*But the next day's headline says it all:

*"Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."

*The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..

*As the days wear on, the story takes wings.

*The national media picks it up,then the international media.

*The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.

*Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win.

*The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and

*that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects.

*After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time.

*The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

*A few months later, you go to trial.

*The charges haven't been reduced,as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.

*When you take the stand, your anger atthe injustice of it all works against you.

*Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man.

*It doesn’t take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.

*The judge sentences you to life in prison.



Continued in next post;

 

[Dennis]

*This case really happened.

*On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk, England, killed one burglar and wounded a second.

*In April, 2000, he was convictedand is now serving a life term..

*How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire?

*It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.

*This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.

*The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns...

*Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens andmandated the registration of all shotguns.

*Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987.

*Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the street shooting everyone he saw.
*When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.
*The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions.

*(The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)
*Nine years later, at Dunblane, Scotland,Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.
*For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable or worse, criminals.
*Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.

*Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.

*The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.
*During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights,the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.

*Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.

*Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.
*Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."
*All of Tony Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.
*When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.
*Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.
*Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.
* How did the authorities know who had handguns?
The guns had been registered and licensed.
Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?*

*WAKE UP AMERICA*

*THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION."...It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.”
--Samuel Adams

*If you think this is important,pleaseforward to everyone you know.
*You had better wake up, because Obama isdoing this very same thing, over here, if he can get it done.

*And there are people in Congress and on the streetthat will go right along with him.

 

[ArtHummer]

There always were, is and will be bad, irresponsible, unreliable and full damn crazy people who are doing something that they not supposed to. Why is their bad decisions should affect on everyone else rights. There are more people die from car accidents then anything ales. Does that mean there should be a ban to cars? "No, this is ridicules". Then why is is not ridicules to ban guns???
Instead of all this time and money spend on trying to do another ban on guns, they should spend on more education of owning a gun and control of sales, like background checks to make sure it will not be sold to a crazies.
To get a driving license you have to go to school for 2 weeks, then spend some time on the road with instructors then pass the driving test.
To get a gun all what you need to do is to pass the background check. They should enforce the buying aspect and not the owning.

Last thing I would say that:

Responsible and trained gun owner with an arsenal of full automatic guns is safer for society then a teenager driving a car.

 

[3Hummers]

Fully automatic weapons have been restricted for 40 years. It is a 4 month process and no one that is a bad apple is going to pass the scrutiny. Legally owned fully automatic weapons, to the last of my knowledge, had not been used in a crime. It is amazing how many fully automatic weapons that gang members, drug dealers, etc have though. The liberal mindset has been to do this piecemeal for the last 50 years. They have made slow but significant progress, slowly desensitizing the public with these incremental tightening of the laws. That is why we have to fight even the most innocuos sounding proposals from these idiots. That just moves their platform for the next restriction a little further toward their goal.

Bye the way, I haven't said F%$k Obama in this thread yet so it is about time. there, I feel better now.

 

[cgalpha08]

The way i see it, if the criminal is going to have a fully automatic weapon, then why cant i have one to protect myself with?

I also agree that this isnt necessarily about guns as much as it is about control. The ding dong thats int he white house wants to have everyone under his control and take away essentilly the ability for us to think for ourselves.
The fast and furious thing was also a setup to hopefully use it as a way to push for more gun contol. If this were a right wing administration that had done this...all hell would of broken lose and answers would be demanded!! The left wing agenda in washington is soo bad and anti american its sickening. :gaah::gaah:

 

[Paladine71]

Here is the government's perspective: http://marketdailynews.com/2013/01/04/dhs-buys-200000-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

 

[DJinCO]

Why hasn't the rabid left taken aim at the drunk drivers? Drunk drivers kill about 10-12K people per year.

It isn't about guns, as others have already said.

 

[3Hummers]

I love the San Antonio theatre shooting story. A couple of weeks after Newton a guy decided to shoot his girlfriend. Found her in a restaurant. Shot her. All the patrons ran into the theatre next door. This guy decided to shoot more people so he went into the theatre after them and opened fire. An off duty officer was in the theatre and shot the guy in the chest 4 times proving that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Didn't see that story anywhere in the mainstream media did you? Didn't serve their purposes.

 

[Dennis]

Repeated of Bigunit's first post on this thread..I should read all the posts completely..HA!:emb:

 

[Schwarttzy]

I'm for guns and think that restrictions are pointless, and that most people are just plain ignorant all the dangerous things out there. If you bought the right stuff at Walmart and Farm & Fleet and had a few days you could make a house disappear off the foundation in the blink of an eye. All this talk about guns is joke compared to that stuff.

 

[bigbadt]

A armed society is a polite society, bottom line !

 

[f5moab]

I'm for guns and think that restrictions are pointless, and that most people are just plain ignorant all the dangerous things out there. If you bought the right stuff at Walmart and Farm & Fleet and had a few days you could make a house disappear off the foundation in the blink of an eye. All this talk about guns is joke compared to that stuff.

Good point. In 1927, the janitor of the elementary school in Bath MI, killed 38 kids, and six (I believe) adults by blowing up the school with dynamite and pyrotol. He might have also been the first suicide bomber in the USA since he also blew up his vehicle while he was inside killing some of the adults. It could have been worse, some of his detonators did not work and I believe he had a lot more area wired to blow. But in NO discussions on any TV news cast did I hear anyone talk about this disaster.

 

[Bigunit]

Cotilo (my wife) just bought and surprised me with this sign that I think I'm going to put on our garage door.

 

[alrock]

Nice!

 

[Green 1]

Today at the DFW gun show they had shirts which said Blaming the school shootings on guns is like blaming 911 on a box cutter. There were many more. The sales were brisk and high and ammo is expensive for all common calibers for semi auto weapons.

 

[3Hummers]

Yep but logic doesn't work because they just want to take guns away. They have some momentum at the moment so they are going to take advantage of it. Divide and conquer. Obama's group is talking to hunters trying to get them to sign on to the weapons ban.
dumbasses don't realize that if the guy had had two 6 shot revolvers he could have killed just as many people. Not like those kids were going to take down a 20 year old while he reloaded.

 

[Gunner_45]

You can ban all the damn guns you want......If they want it bad enough, they will find a way.

Guess you can put more than tobacco in a Prince Albert can.


Police Foil Teen's Bomb Plot on School

A 17-year-old, self-proclaimed white supremacist will be arraigned today in what police say was a plot to attack
fellow students at his high school in Russell County, Ala., with homemade explosive devices.
Derek Shrout was arrested Friday after a teacher at Russell County High School found what appears to be the
teen's journal and contacted authorities. Police said the journal contained plans to kill six students and one
teacher with homemade grenades. Six of the seven individuals were black.
In the journal, police say that Shrout thought the white male on his list was gay.
"That's the reason the white male was on the list. It screams hate crime," Russell County Sheriff Heath Taylor said.
Investigators say Shrout started writing in his journal just three days after a gunman killed 20 children and six adults
at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 14.
"The journal contained several plans that looked like potential terrorist attacks and attacks of violence and danger on the school," Taylor said.
Shrout told police that the journal was a work of fiction.
"I didn't think anything like that could happen in Russell County. I thought maybe that's just something that happens everywhere else," said student Qunitin Hobbs.
Shrout told police that he rarely interacted with the people he's accused of targeting. Police say Shrout learned how to make the devices on the Internet.
A search of Shrout's home turned up dozens of empty tobacco containers filled with shrapnel. The containers had holes in them ready for fuses to ignite.
He hadn't obtained gunpowder, fuses or a substance to ignite the devices.
"He could have got the whole school, just got all of us at once," said student Javon Rogers.
Shrout is expected to plead not guilty in his court appearance later today. The teen is being charged as an adult with attempted assault.

 

[3Hummers]

Congress opens and with the budget issues, confirmations, etc gun control is at the top of the list. Here we go.... Everyone write your Senators and Congresspeople.

 

[poncho1965]

I liked and agree with this piece on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/04/us/marine-gun-letter-ireport/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[3Hummers]

I saw that a few days ago. Can't believe CNN ran with it, unless to show how hard it is going to be to take anyone's guns away.

 

[deserth3]

Was just sent this very good article.
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/

Does this meen we can sit back and just watch things happen? NO. The idiots who are blindly pushing these laws will nickleand dime us to a no gun status.

 

[3Hummers]

Bank of America froze a gun manufacturer's account because they decided he shouldn't be selling guns and parts online. Sure am glad I don't bank with B of A anymore or I would have to switch my banking relationship.

 

[58Bisc]

I liked and agree with this piece on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/04/us/marine-gun-letter-ireport/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This guy nailed it. Great answers and he threw the reporter off her game. No question which side of the debate she is on.

 

[ArtHummer]

damn... such an interesting conversation, but I can't read most of it... damn you gov firewall:gaah: