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FJ4overland

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,503
Location
Meridian, ID

and for those who wonder why Instant Center (IC) is important, this one climbs this hill - my Hummer can't (even though it has a longer wheelbase and full lockers too)

To the hosts, my next goal on the next build is a million views....


Did u redo your suspension to improve the IC?
 

06 H3

a.k.a. "The Jackal"
Messages
9,503
Location
Meridian, ID
I know you linked it and built the suspension but I wasn't sure if you redid your links and setup after u initially finished it. I didn't pay close attention to the thread it's a long one! Lol
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
the only thing I changed after the designing it was where I initially put the panhard bar (I moved a bolt). On another site, I was getting grief about an IC discussion - they said that if you can't feel it, it doesn't matter. I know he's wrong so that IC comment was more directed towards him. To him I said that it's like the artificial horizon in an airplane, you can ignore it but it's at your peril.

I think most off-road people have no idea how the IC affects traction, and that's actually too bad because you can load the front with how you set the IC. In drag racing, you want a neutral balance. Moving it can really wake up (or slow) a car. For example, if your car is front heavy, you actually want your IC further forward to put weight onto the rear tires (you see it as squat). In the 4x4 world, tending towards separation (moving the IC back towards the rear) could really make a huge difference in getting up a hill or not. To me it's a physics exercise because you look at the problem and say "what is the solution" do I want the nose to lift, drop? when do I want that to happen? In drag racing, you want the weight over the wheels at the hit (instant acceleration) to prevent smoke shows, but by the time you're at the 60' mark, you want the nose back on the ground to aid in aero.... you do that with shock tuning. 4x4 is the same thing, granted sometimes they go opposite directions, but the principles and solutions are the same.

I can even illustrate. So that picture of me climbing the hill? The first run I popped right up the hill because I was travelling less than a couple mph and, since the IC is just a bit back (roughly at the bellhousing flange) it creates separation when I nail the throttle (which puts weight on the rear, but also the front) and I pop right up the hill. When resting on the hill, as in the picture, it wouldn't climb it because it didn't have traction since the front wasn't getting loaded. It's also the reason my H3 struggles with it - the IC is in front of the engine so when I nail the throttle, it pulls the front tires up (unloads).

I also can tell from the various videos of people who should know better that they have no clue, they pound and pound at an obstacle, when, if they just moved their top link a bit, would pop right over the top.... but there are some, mostly on Pirate, that seem to think that buggy wheels, and leaf springs is the height of technology and shout down anyone who says different.

But don't tell anyone on Pirate ;) they think road folks don't know anything and I love seeing their frustration.
 
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SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
So I spent a lot of time getting stuff out for camping this weekend, but there was progress on the toyota front
the news is I gave up on bearings


1" axle with 1 1/4" dom tube and a bit of boring and it works well


and now I don't think I'll worry so much about it falling off


high lift jack plan, fuel plan - though on that side I'm building shelves that I can put whatever on and attach ax, shovel, etc.


I'm building a stainless tank for inside for water....
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
Once I got home, I had a few minutes to mess with my '40....
cell phone holder plus charge port


finish roll bar wrap


started mapping out how these are going to install


and these


so the next project will be deconstructing this


and putting it on this


so I can tow it behind the '40 or whatever
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
more rack work, alas, I wanted to paint it tonight... but it didn't happen, hopefully Sunday then I can get to stripping the top






and steps along with bracing the spindle


and that all said, I'll be pretty lucky to get the thing painted Sunday....
 

JPaul

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,436
Location
Way up north, UT
That seems like a lot of leverage on the driver side swingout with it having the gas can up so high and far away from the pivot point. Is the hinge going to be able to hold up to those forces? I'd be afraid of not just being able to support the weight when it's swung out but also when starting and stopping, that could be a lot of stress on that pivot pin if you had to brake hard with a full can of gas up there since the distance from the gas can to the pivot pin makes that a rather long lever. And every time you got going from a stop it'd put a fair bit of force on that pin in the other direction. It might not break right away, but I could see it fatiguing over time and eventually failing. It might not break the pin itself, but it'd probably ruin the portion it inserts into after a while.

If this were my vehicle I'd feel better if a second pivot pin was added either at the top, or in the middle (which is probably the easier location to add it). Then you wouldn't have to worry at all about the increased forces at play as the second pivot pin would drastically reduce the forces applied to the pin at the bumper. If your roll cage is tied to the frame then I think adding another pivot pin attached to the roll cage right above the rim of the body would work pretty well, then you'd be able to modify the top to fit over it pretty easily I would think.

The tire carrier is supporting more weight, but it's a lot closer to the pivot point which greatly reduces the leverage being applied to the pin, which is why you generally don't see such a problem.

I might be off base here, but these seem like real concerns to me.
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
Good questions, but I think it's okay. It all spins on spindles rated to 1200 lbs, not just that, but there's 2 points of load, the spindle and the center support. The farthest point from that spindle is 18". It would be really easy to overbuild this, but I'd rather not the unnecessary weight. With that said, so calculations - the fuel and water, combined, will be 60 lbs (10 gallons max). That upper point is 36" from the pin, rated at 1200 lbs, so max leverage isn't even close to the 1200 lbs, it's more like 180 lbs. Not just that, but should it get loose at all, it'll run into the tire, which is supported on the other side with a 1200 lb spindle. My concern is the pivot point and I'm boxing that area as well because where the rod goes through the box, there could be issues with strength at the welds... also the reason I put that 'foot step' in place. It seems way overkill, but it's 3/8" steel and distributes the load across the joint to the upright..... if anything, the passenger side will have the most stress because eventually there will be a 38" tire swinging on it thats weight centers a foot forward from the pivot.
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
more on the rack
getting there


final test fit


anti-rattle devices


note the amazing paint booth.... yeah, spared no expense there


so this is the anti-rust/protective coating... there will be one more coat of UV protectant stuff
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
So today's work
the tail was hanging a bit low after the installation of the spare carrier, so I swapped the 4" lift rear JK springs with the 4" front JK springs.


remember boys and girls, springs set ride height, shocks control ride... don't make me set RideTech on you... just believe me. whew.

so just for the record, and despite what Twinmill, alrock, and JP do, we do NOT spoil our dogs. They get no accommodation, they eat crunchy food and enjoy it, only one topping per meal, and nothing but dog-food-store dog food.... we make them toe the line.... and never build stairways so they don't hurt their precious little paws getting into a vehicle.
now that that's clear...
cables for the rear door


What the?!!! those don't belong there...


silly take-advantage-dogs....


those stairs are for ME, dammit... sigh

well, she does look cute there



now to get Buick to use it (will be a challenge)
​
 

Texatl

Well-Known Member
Messages
109
Location
SW Ohio
so just for the record, and despite what Twinmill, alrock, and JP do, we do NOT spoil our dogs. They get no accommodation, they eat crunchy food and enjoy it, only one topping per meal, and nothing but dog-food-store dog food....
​
What the!!! Is right! What is this one topping BS?? If you mean the crunchy stuff on top of the bottom of the bowl, then yeah. But if you mean something else placed on TOP of the food, as in extra goodness... Shame!!

LOL- awesome looking dogs dude.

JPaul- get a dog. They make life better. We have 3! So our life is triple better :)

Apologies for the hijack. Back to FJ awesomeness.
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
No pictures tonight. I somehow borrowed my dad's rubber tape measure - so tomorrow night will be a repeat of tonight with the sole exception of the boxes being formed in the right dimensions.....
 

SuperBuickGuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,403
Location
Woodinville, WA
Or I did something else tonight... boxes tomorrow night
beside the box fiasco, I swapped springs on the rear

nice and level now at fighting weight

boxes


we know that story

as I raised the suspension I checked the alignment.... all good


I don't get how I could build in the LC lean, but somehow I did


and stripped what will be the half doors

stripped


Installed the monkey


and worked on the fenders

 
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